Welcome Takumi Minamino

[Begbie]

Get rid next summer

[Earl Hafler]

22 minutes ago, Swipe said:

Yeah really bad. Him, and to a slightly lesser extent Keita, look very un-Klopp players. They’re so weak. 

They seem to lack conviction, focus in their passing etc because they're more concerned with not being challenged - Minamino keeps fresh airing the ball. 

I'd still have given him or Origi a couple of starts whilst allowing Bobby a proper rest, as most players will struggle for form when playing sporadically 

[kop205]

17 minutes ago, Hightown Phil said:

He's also only playing in second string front lines by and large. I don't think he's played a single game with Salah and Mane either side of him. Not been great, but would be helpful for him if he was able to play football with the good players on at least a semi regular basis. He has after all only started two league games.

All of this is fair and true and if you look at Bobby he only probably really started to become Bobby once he got first Mane and then Salah alongside him. He wasn't consistently hitting any great heights when he had Benteke trundling around ahead of him so it probably isn't fair to expect Minamino to do that when Divock is his partner.

But for all this, he still just doesn't look to me like someone who has what it takes to make it here. I generally felt Bobby did.

[Chewie]

what's his best position though if he is to make it here. On his game Bobby can play number 9 as an actual 9 or a false 9. Don't think Minamino can be an actual number 9. He's also not the most attacking midfielder in a 3, nor is he a wide man. That leaves playing in the role just behind a striker in a 4-2-3-1, which we are probably not going to do a lot ot, and when we have done this, Jurgen hasn't used him there. Hard to see where he gets his game where his game helps our game

[scoose]

I honestly thought he made 2 or 3 really good runs but there was no end product or he just got brushed off the ball. His movement is good the rest needs imrpovement

[Hightown Phil]

10 minutes ago, kop205 said:

All of this is fair and true and if you look at Bobby he only probably really started to become Bobby once he got first Mane and then Salah alongside him. He wasn't consistently hitting any great heights when he had Benteke trundling around ahead of him so it probably isn't fair to expect Minamino to do that when Divock is his partner.

But for all this, he still just doesn't look to me like someone who has what it takes to make it here. I generally felt Bobby did.

That's a decent comparison. He might not have what it takes, but it would be nice to see what happens when he plays with the good players in a normal game of football. His longest spells in the first team are 45 minutes in a derby, 45 minutes in that Villa game, an hour when he came on for Mane at Wolves. The rest of his core minutes has been with Harvey Elliott and Divock Origi. He might well turn out to be crap, but it would be nice to see him play with Thiago passing him the ball and Mane and Salah somewhere near him before we declare him the things a lot of people seem to have decided he is. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Hightown Phil

[LicK]

3 minutes ago, Hightown Phil said:

That's a decent comparison. He might not have what it takes, but it would be nice to see what happens when he plays with the good players in a normal game of football. His longest spells in the first team are 45 minutes in a derby, 45 minutes in that Villa game, an hour when he came on for Mane at Wolves. The rest of his core minutes has been with Harvey Elliott, Divock Origi. He might well turn out to be crap, but it would be nice to see him play with Thiago passing him the ball and Mane and Salah somewhere near him before we declare him the things a lot of people seem to have decided he is. 

I get this, but playing with Salah and Mane isn't going to make him stronger, quicker or have a better first touch. Last night Jota and Shaqiri managed to show their quality occasionally. Minamino (like Origi) disn't show a thing.

[PaulMcC186]

I think if he looked up to it in training he'd get more games with the better players. Robertson only played in the league cup for his first couple of months, but when Klopp thought he was ready he put him in the first team. Same with Fabinho. Jota has been put straight in too. Firmino has been in bad form for ages and Klopp has barely played Minamino with Salah and Mane, that suggests to me he's not looking good enough in training. 

[Barnesy_10]

He looks very timid and overwhelmed. Same with Naby at times. 

Not quite sure either will make it at the club, for differing reasons I think. Naby has looked good at times, but not sure he has brought to the team the strengths he showed at Leipzig. I think the major issue with Naby is his fitness. We can't rely on him at all and that's a big problem 

[Hightown Phil]

2 minutes ago, LicK said:

I get this, but playing with Salah and Mane isn't going to make him stronger, quicker or have a better first touch. Last night Jota and Shaqiri managed to show their quality occasionally. Minamino (like Origi) disn't show a thing.

It would give him more time and space though. I'd just like to see what it looks like, he's not played 90 minutes in a league game or a champions league game yet and I think the rush to judgement is fairly harsh. I'd play him against Atalanta next week I think with the strongest side and see what it looks like. Cos at the minute we seem to basically have no real option bar playing the front three and we can't go through the season without managing to integrate him and Jota with two of three. 

[kop205]

5 minutes ago, LicK said:

I get this, but playing with Salah and Mane isn't going to make him stronger, quicker or have a better first touch.

It would definitely give him easier passing options though.

Both Salah and Mane always want the ball and by and large do something with it. Origi literally looked lost out there, like he'd just wandered onto the pitch or something.

[Cobs]

Was interesting to see Crouch & Lallana talk last night if the difficulty they had in stepping up to a club like Liverpool.

some players can do it immediately but not all hit their stride straight away. 
 

of course some just never do - Keita, for all the hype looks like one of them. Am happy to let Minamino have more time yet. The attacking unit were all garbage last night- including the stars when they came on.

[Tommy Cockles]

4 minutes ago, kop205 said:

It would definitely give him easier passing options though.

Both Salah and Mane always want the ball and by and large do something with it. Origi literally looked lost out there, like he'd just wandered onto the pitch or something.

Origi genuinely looked as if he had been woken up 5 mins before kick off.

[Barnesy_10]

19 minutes ago, Tommy Cockles said:

Origi genuinely looked as if he had been woken up 5 mins before kick off.

His mannerisms are generally laid back anyway. Only have to look at some of his goal celebrations to see how chilled out he is. This also seems evident across his entire game which isn't always a good thing when we are looking for a level of aggression in the players 

[Earl Hafler]

38 minutes ago, LicK said:

I get this, but playing with Salah and Mane isn't going to make him stronger, quicker or have a better first touch.

Confidence affects all those things

[Tommy Cockles]

3 minutes ago, Barnesy_10 said:

His mannerisms are generally laid back anyway. Only have to look at some of his goal celebrations to see how chilled out he is. This also seems evident across his entire game which isn't always a good thing when we are looking for a level of aggression in the players 

 

Yeah a mate of mine has a theory about him that he just isn't that ar5ed. As you say his goal celebrations are a bit of an indicator. The differences between his & Gini's against Barca being a good example.

It's frustrating as he literally has everything you want in a forward. If he had just a pipette of Suarez juice in him he would be unplayable.

 

 

[kop205]

Just now, Tommy Cockles said:

 

It's frustrating as he literally has everything you want in a forward. If he had just a pipette of Suarez juice in him he would be unplayable.

 

 

He really doesn't.

He is technically massively limited.

[Jarg Armani]

1 hour ago, Hightown Phil said:

Thought the attack was a dysfunctional mess last night. Got absolutely no idea where anyone was playing or what everyone was supposed to be doing. 

Have you met Divock before 

[JRC]

Last night for him appeared to be so much one of those mares that you can more easily write it off, especially as it was in the context of a disjointed team performance.

We know - from those games against us, from Klopp and the team buying AND still playing him, from cameos in games he has played - that he is better than that. He may not make it, but much too early to write him off.

[Gethin]

19 minutes ago, JRC said:

Last night for him appeared to be so much one of those mares that you can more easily write it off, especially as it was in the context of a disjointed team performance.

We know - from those games against us, from Klopp and the team buying AND still playing him, from cameos in games he has played - that he is better than that. He may not make it, but much too early to write him off.

Yeah that's where I'm at with him.

I said the other week on the Bobby thread that I'd like to see him play between Mane and Salah for exactly the reasons HP mentioned earlier - that he's just not had the chance there yet and Bobby's confidence levels look shot.

There's obviously *something* there but we can't tell whether it's enough to play that role yet and unfortunately it's a very difficult time to experiment like that.

[Tommy Cockles]

44 minutes ago, kop205 said:

He really doesn't.

He is technically massively limited.

Not having that mate, some of the goals he has scored for us have been sensational. The sort of goals "technically massively limited" players don't even think about executing.

I agree his limitations are massive, but they are attitudinal rather than technical.

[Leo No.8]

1 hour ago, kop205 said:

He really doesn't.

He is technically massively limited.

There was one touch he had last night that genuinely made me laugh out loud, in the first half on the near side. It was one of those you trap just before it hits the ground and it boinged off his foot about 20 yards. 

[Tosh]

1 hour ago, Leo No.8 said:

There was one touch he had last night that genuinely made me laugh out loud, in the first half on the near side. It was one of those you trap just before it hits the ground and it boinged off his foot about 20 yards. 

Are you sure you've not got him mixed up with Origi?

[Tommok]

Minamino still looks a bit overwhelmed and perhaps trying too hard, combined with a lack of physical strength and being brushed off the ball too easily it doesn't look great.

He seemed much more confident and assured when he played against us.

Hopefully he will settle down but I wonder if the PL might be a bit too physical for him.

[Leo No.8]

1 hour ago, Tosh said:

Are you sure you've not got him mixed up with Origi?

It was Origi getting discussed if you read that thread back, bit confusing with it being a Minamino topic!

Defo Origi I was talking about! 

He’s an unusual player because his finishing technique can be really good (see Everton at home last year, CL final, Arsenal Carabao winner etc.) but his first touch playing with his back to goal is largely horrendous.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Leo No.8