Jump to content

EU Referendum


EU Referendum  

327 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 20k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

It's Fydsesque isn't it?

With any luck he's rotting away painfully from festering, irreversible syphilis.

Thought Ed did well there making Johnson look like a very naughty boy getting made a show of at assembly for stamping on the school gerbil 

Posted Images

no brainer unless you are a brain dead little Englander who still thinks the empire is a thing

 

Instinctively I think we should maybe leave (I guess depending on terms of exit and how our relationship with Europe goes forward). I've refused to take this stance before largely because of what you say, I didn't want to be associated with Farage and the Nazi right. But the argument is there to be had now, then I see who's for leaving and don't feel comfortable being in bed with Gove, Grayling and Duncan Smith either. So it's a strange one, if the likes of them thunk we should leave my default reaction would be to stay but my gut feeling is that Europe is sliding into all kinds of sh*t and we should get out. Probably..

Edited by Murphman
Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently one of Gove's major gripes was when EU rules affected his decisions to change our education system. Christ knows how far he would have gone if he had carte blanche - it's a genuinely scary thought.

 

If Johnson sides with the out campaign later today this could eventually be the end for Cameron.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently one of Gove's major gripes was when EU rules affected his decisions to change our education system. Christ knows how far he would have gone if he had carte blanche - it's a genuinely scary thought.

 

If Johnson sides with the out campaign later today this could eventually be the end for Cameron.

Hilarious to imagine that Johnsons decision will be based on anything other than his own prospects too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's going to be an interesting campaign, but not convinced it will be very close yet.

 

Seems obvious that status quo is strong, but biggest problem leave have is they can't decide what the main reason for going is. One camp is the Gove side, it being all about sovereignty for good or bad, the other Farage lot making it all about an immigration fantasy. The one that's not getting off the ground is the anti-corporate agenda, which would make it close

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, but Farage has got that nice Mr Galloway on board. Game changer.

 

CbpUhE3W0AATlaf.jpg

 

 

Hilarious to imagine that Johnsons decision will be based on anything other than his own prospects too.

 

Big element of that from Gove too. With the views of the conservative party membership being what they are, they all know that regardless of the actual referendum result, just being the leadership candidate who campaigned to leave will be enough when the vote's put to the membership.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stay. For a whole host of reasons but principally because the rapid erosion of workers' rights that would happen in Britain that was outside the EU would be horrific.

I get this argument, but I'm uncomfortable with it - it's as though we're prepared to forego democracy when doing so advances the policies we want.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I get this argument, but I'm uncomfortable with it - it's as though we're prepared to forego democracy when doing so advances the policies we want.

Yes, although I'd rather be uncomfortable with the method by which we reach a good outcome than comfortable with the method that leads to a bad one. In this case though, that continued protection of workers' rights would be as a result of a democratic vote to stay anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously the right are protected from us getting our way by the Lords, and the monarchy, and the military.

We're protected from them getting their way by the EU. (Which also prevents the extreme left from getting its way.)

 

I don't want us to leave the EU but I worry we're a bit dishonest or at least inconsistent in our arguments.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm interested to see whether there is a legitimate argument to be formed from the left for leaving the EU. e.g. Channelling the money we spend on EU integration instead to public sector development projects or green energy projects, making UK a leader in new-age technologies. 

 

 

Fully expect the Leave side to be all UKIPpy but I think you can be anti-EU but pro-Europe. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Apparently one of Gove's major gripes was when EU rules affected his decisions to change our education system. Christ knows how far he would have gone if he had carte blanche - it's a genuinely scary thought.

 

If Johnson sides with the out campaign later today this could eventually be the end for Cameron.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/michael-gove-why-im-backing-leave/

 

He's all over the f***ing place.

 

I can understand the antipathy around EU wastage and corruption, but the notion that they're handcuffing this current shower in Westminster alone makes it a stay vote.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I get this argument, but I'm uncomfortable with it - it's as though we're prepared to forego democracy when doing so advances the policies we want.

 

I think you've answered this in your next post I don't think there needs to be any inconsistency in our arguments. Democracy is subject to various constraints, like those you refer to below, but it's okay to argue in favour of particular constraints and against others given that they are instrumentally different. As long as you don't make the claim that all constraints on democracy are bad you're alright.

 

I'm interested to see whether there is a legitimate argument to be formed from the left for leaving the EU. e.g. Channelling the money we spend on EU integration instead to public sector development projects or green energy projects, making UK a leader in new-age technologies. 

 

Fully expect the Leave side to be all UKIPpy but I think you can be anti-EU but pro-Europe. 

 

I think it's a lot harder to make the case from the left than it was, largely because of the protections afforded workers. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...