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DazzlaJ

EU Referendum

EU Referendum  

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Instinctively I think we should maybe leave (I guess depending on terms of exit and how our relationship with Europe goes forward). I've refused to take this stance before largely because of what you say, I didn't want to be associated with Farage and the Nazi right. But the argument is there to be had now, then I see who's for leaving and don't feel comfortable being in bed with Gove, Grayling and Duncan Smith either. So it's a strange one, if the likes of them thunk we should leave my default reaction would be to stay but my gut feeling is that Europe is sliding into all kinds of sh*t and we should get out. Probably..

 

Are you comfortable with Kate Hooey and Frank Field......?

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Stevie

Not much at all

 

I think Cameron did an OK job on getting something out of them this past week:

No "ever closer union"

No UK money used to bail out the Eurozone banks

55% veto on legislation

 

That said, it will come down to who can make the scariest noise about migrants and benefits. Which is a travesty on such an important issue. Listening to Farage rail at Brussels when he's IN the European chamber is quite good as he does make some points I agree with and watching Junker and co squirm is hilarious - his anti-migrant-ism is more for the UK audience IMO. The European institutions are flawed and increasingly showing signs of being horribly undemocratic, authoritarian and "divorced" from the people they are supposed to be serving/representing. I've never liked the fact that they've yet to produce a set of audited accounts, the fact that the Commission is unelected, or that they all chickened out of the difficult decisons on fiscal alignment to make the Eurozone work properly.

Despite all that I think I'm an "inny"

Edited by Tosh

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Stevie

Not much at all

 

I think Cameron did an OK job on getting something out of them this past week:

No "ever closer union"

No UK money used to bail out the Eurozone banks

55% veto on legislation

 

That said, it will come down to who can make the scariest noise about migrants and benefits. Which is a travesty on such an important issue. Listening to Farage rail at Brussels when he's IN the European chamber is quite good as he does make some points I agree with and watching Junker and co squirm is hilarious - his anti-migrant-ism is more for the UK audience IMO. The European institutions are flawed and increasingly showing signs of being horribly undemocratic, authoritarian and "divorced" from the people they are supposed to be serving/representing. I've never liked the fact that they've yet to produce a set of audited accounts, the fact that the Commission is unelected, or that they all chickened out of the difficult decisons on fiscal alignment to make the Eurozone work properly.

Despite all that I think I'm an "inny"

 

Flaws of the EU structure are pretty clear. Democratic deficit, cronyism and CAP. However it's difficult to see how you get rid of all of that easily whilst still holding a union together, doesn't run itself.

 

Think Farage will become biggest voice on Out side by default. But his personal case hasn't developed in twenty years apart from going heavier on an immigration trope he can't stack up.

 

Everyone has heard his 'open door to 500m, unelected bureaucrats, accounts not signed off, we can trade with the world, Germans will still sell us cars' lines a million times, not sure it's going to move any more votes now.

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Louise Mensch making a right t** of herself on twitter today.

 

If she said the sun comes up in the morning, I'd still check.

 

She wants out, 'nuff said

George Osborne wants in. Nuff said?

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Does anyone have a reliable source for the amount of money leaving the UK economy via child benefit compared to to tax tactics deployed by Google et al?

The amount of claw back from the deal, as opposed to total outflow, was put at a whole £35m (yesterday's Guardian, I think) with the cost of administration likely to be greater

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George Osborne wants in. Nuff said?

 

hmmm, is there a 'sit on the fence' alternative?

 

Then again, Osbourne is just a c***, Mensch is a f***ing moron

she's the British Sarah Palin. And I think she'd like that comparison

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I am quite surprised. It's a big call for someone who, one assumes, has designs on Cameron's job.

I hope he's misplaced in his belief but if his gamble pays out he PM.

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Nah, v different

 

 

 

I only mean in his popularist image and sense of opportunism as opposed to policy as such.

 

That and them both being vile c****.

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Nah, v different

 

No lose gamble. Brexit and he's favourite for PM, lose and he's the one of big three who stood with grassroots.

Big Three? Debatable phrase in any event but who do you include besides (presumably) Johnson and Gove?

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I only mean in his popularist image and sense of opportunism as opposed to policy as such.

 

That and them both being vile c****.

Fair dues.

 

 

 

Big Three? Debatable phrase in any event but who do you include besides (presumably) Johnson and Gove?

All speculation has been about Johnson, Osborne & May as favourites to succeed Cameron. Johnson puts himself on side of Tory grassroots by doing this and going against the other two and the head office, when he's probably more pro EU. Gove says he's not a front man, but actually believes in what he says and does

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Fair dues.

 

 

 

 

All speculation has been about Johnson, Osborne & May as favourites to succeed Cameron. Johnson puts himself on side of Tory grassroots by doing this and going against the other two and the head office, when he's probably more pro EU. Gove says he's not a front man, but actually believes in what he says and does

Do(s) not due(s)

 

And, if you leave the important word "the" out of your statement, you are liable to be misunderstood. "One of big three who stood with grassroots", means there were three big [twäts] who stood with the grassroots, not: there are three big [twäts], one of whom . . .

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The amount of claw back from the deal, as opposed to total outflow, was put at a whole £35m (yesterday's Guardian, I think) with the cost of administration likely to be greater

 

Out of a total child benefit payout of £11 billion.

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Nah, v different

 

No lose gamble. Brexit and he's favourite for PM, lose and he's the one of big three who stood with grassroots.

 

 

Kind of agree. If Brexit he'll be PM by the end of the year. If he does a half decent job and loses he's pretty much guaranteed as 1 of the 2 going to the vote by members in 2018 or whenever. 

 

It won't be Gove, and personally I think Patel is talked up too much but we'll see. 

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Do(s) not due(s)

 

And, if you leave the important word "the" out of your statement, you are liable to be misunderstood. "One of big three who stood with grassroots", means there were three big [twäts] who stood with the grassroots, not: there are three big [twäts], one of whom . . .

Only if you're being prissy. 'the one of big three' being different to 'one of big three' no matter how quickly it was punched in

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I change my mind on this frequently. 

Instinctively I prefer decisions taken close to the people, which means leaving the EU. Its just that I don't trust that the politicians on this island are making enough good progressive moves to help all.

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