Our record against the better teams

[MFletcher]

With today finishing our season's games against the other teams "in and around us" and where we aspire to reach, I thought it might be worthwhile to look at our performances against these teams. Today's game against Everton highlighted some rather unwelcome truths, namely that we're consistently incapable of both a) breaking down sides that are well-organised and defensively compact and b) when we do, preventing them going up the other end and scoring themselves.

 

At home

 

Liverpool 2 - 2 City

Liverpool 0 - 2 Arsenal

Liverpool 1 - 2 Man Utd

Liverpool 0 - 2 West Brom

Liverpool 3 - 2 Spurs

Liverpool 2 - 2 Chelsea

Liverpool 0 -0 Everton

 

F8 A12 W1 D3 L3 Points: 6

 

Away

 

West Brom 3 - 0 Liverpool

Everton 2 - 2 Liverpool

Chelsea 1 - 1 Liverpool

Tottenham 2 - 1 Liverpool

Man United 2 - 1 Liverpool

Arsenal 2 - 2 Liverpool

Man City 2 - 2 Liverpool

 

F9 A14 W0 D4 L3 Points 4

 

Summary:

F17 A26 W1 D7 L6 Points: 10

 

It wasn't until I looked at the above that I realised how poor our form was against these teams. It's not even close to good enough if we have genuine hopes of challenging for the top four.

[Jim D]

With today finishing our season's games against the other teams "in and around us" and where we aspire to reach, I thought it might be worthwhile to look at our performances against these teams. Today's game against Everton highlighted some rather unwelcome truths, namely that we're consistently incapable of both a) breaking down sides that are well-organised and defensively compact and b) when we do, preventing them going up the other end and scoring themselves.

 

At home

 

Liverpool 2 - 2 City

Liverpool 0 - 2 Arsenal

Liverpool 1 - 2 Man Utd

Liverpool 0 - 2 West Brom

Liverpool 3 - 2 Spurs

Liverpool 2 - 2 Chelsea

Liverpool 0 -0 Everton

 

F8 A12 W1 D3 L3 Points: 6

 

Away

 

West Brom 3 - 0 Liverpool

Everton 2 - 2 Liverpool

Chelsea 1 - 1 Liverpool

Tottenham 2 - 1 Liverpool

Man United 2 - 1 Liverpool

Arsenal 2 - 2 Liverpool

Man City 2 - 2 Liverpool

 

F9 A14 W0 D4 L3 Points 4

 

Summary:

F17 A26 W1 D7 L6 Points: 10

 

It wasn't until I looked at the above that I realised how poor our form was against these teams. It's not even close to good enough if we have genuine hopes of challenging for the top four.

 

So frustrating, we're completely the opposite of what we were under Rafa, we could compete with the big teams all the way but when it came to dispatching the smaller teams we'd struggle by racking up a ton a draws. Love to know what are record is like against the bottom half.

[Billy Talbot]

It's the same problem manifesting in different ways. We need more better players.

 

We had better players at our heights with Rafa. So we beat better teams more regularly. We failed against lesser teams mainly due to a lack of squad depth.

 

We fare better against lesser team currently because we're playing less games and the bigger games aren't as intense.

[Zoob]

It's one of those weird ones, where on the one hand 'the stats don't lie' - I wouldn't be surprised if our record against the top teams is actually our worst in 30+ years... on the other hand, there's a number of freak games in there, and I think our poor run itself is just a bit of a statistical freak.

 

Both games against City we should/would have won but for individual errors by players. These were 2 of our best performances this season. Other games - like Arsenal and Everton away our team was a bit naive - think we lacked the combative midfielders to close games off where we really shouldn't have let the leads slip.

 

...and Man Utd at home we were criminally robbed by the ref.

 

There's several games in that list where we played a lot better than the one game (home vs. spurs) that we did win...

[melia]

On the flipside, we've done alright against teams outside the top 8.

 

P W D L F A Pts

22 13 6 3 50 16 45

 

Alright, I'm clutching at straws here, I know. It's all I've got.

[Nebraska Red]

F17 A26 W1 D7 L6 Points: 10

 

That is a pretty grim statistic.

[David Hodgson]

It's not that bad, and it's not that meaningful a statistic. It's not like every time we played those sides they battered us. The majority couldn't beat us, and we were actually the better side in the majority of those encounters. Ironically we won one of the games where a draw might have been the fairer result.

 

Our experience of the last 20 years should tell us that it is little consolation to be taking big scalps if you can't take the smaller ones. This season, at least we can say we've bucked that trend and been utterly ruthless against the crap. It's a platform to build on.

 

At the end of the day the only meaningful stats are the points totals and the goals for and against columns. Those tell the pictures of a mediocre season, albeit one that has improved from a calamitous start. We'll finish this term with 59-61 points. It's nothing to celebrate but it isn't awful for the first year for a new regime, and before anyone shouts 'but its a sh*t league!' let's recall that it was no classic of a competition in the likes of '04, or 05 when we got a similar total.

[Cobs]

We're 7th and were crap in the cups

 

It's been a turd of a season

[smithdown]

On the flipside, we've done alright against teams outside the top 8.

 

P W D L F A Pts

22 13 6 3 50 16 45

 

Alright, I'm clutching at straws here, I know. It's all I've got.

 

 

 

A list of teams we have beaten this season is going to look like a roll call for The Football League Show.

[kop205]

We're 7th and were crap in the cups

 

It's been a turd of a season

 

Correct.

 

Can't wait for it to be over.

[RBM]

We're 7th and were crap in the cups

 

It's been a turd of a season

 

It's been rubbish. It's been one of those were there hasn't been anything to really look forward to, or get excited about.

We're just ambling along, with the occasional big win against crap opposition. It must be what it's like to support Fulham or Stoke.

 

I expect more of the same next season.

[chrisbonnie]

Everything's going great, we've got a media friendly manager who keeps telling anybody who'll listen that we're on the right track.

 

So all the knob head journalists believe Mr media friendly manager , who then in turn write up their Mickey mouse articles to appease the masses. 99% of us fall for it. The other one percent are called moaning c****.

 

It's been a terrible season, we haven't processed, and we've bought more s****

players along the way.

 

So, in summary, nothing has changed

[smithdown]

Our record when we need a result is the most significant problem. We have risen to precisely NO occasions, and not had a single big day out.

 

That is not being Liverpool. That is being Everton.

[matty]

It's not that bad, and it's not that meaningful a statistic.

EH????

 

Complacency rules, ok.

[Swipe]

We're 7th and were crap in the cups

 

It's been a turd of a season

 

Yep. Summer can't come quick enough and it's been like that for a while.

[Stevie H]

We're 7th and were crap in the cups

 

It's been a turd of a season

way more problems and negatives than bright spots and positives.

[David Hodgson]

We're 7th and were crap in the cups

 

It's been a turd of a season

 

The first 3rd was horrible. I've enjoyed quite a bit of it since then. Last season was much better though.

 

Our record when we need a result is the most significant problem. We have risen to precisely NO occasions, and not had a single big day out.

 

That is not being Liverpool. That is being Everton.

 

I know what you mean, but last satdee felt like a great day out, and I've enjoyed walking out of Anfield a few times knowing we've properly put a few teams to bed. Still, we've had none of those 'let's have a disco cos we've done Man Utd' moments. We were close a few times, but it just didn't happen.

 

EH????

 

Complacency rules, ok.

 

How many points do you think we should have this season ? Against what measure am I being complacent ?

[psl]

When was the last time we had such a damp squib of a season with nothing to look forward to and no big wins? Evans/Houllier?

[Flight]

The first 3rd was horrible. I've enjoyed quite a bit of it since then. Last season was much better though.

 

 

It's not just the first third that's been an issue though is it Rob ? We've won one in the last five, including not being able to score against West Ham, Reading and Everton.

 

 

We exist to win things. We won't win anything under Ayre and BR.

[Gunga Din]

the annoying thing is, in most of those games against the sides that finished top 8, we were the better side, we just either couldnt pull the trigger or see the game out.

 

We were 2 up against Arsenal and the the bitters away, and ended up with 2 points instead of 6, we were 2-1 up against city twice and got 2 points, we battered WBA at home, missed a late pen and went to bits, we were stitched up by the ref at home against the mancs. Its been a massively frustrating season, a massively disappointing season because it never really "got going" in as much as we werent actually competitive in any of the 4 competitions we were in.

 

next season is massive for Rodgers. It will be interesting to see what he does with any money in the summer. If he goes out and gets in a quality centre half and a decent holding midfielder then we should kick on. if we end up with Ashley f***ing Williams and a few players with "potential" i'll be proper fuming

[kop205]

We could/should have had 4 mor 5 more wins against the 'top' sides - City home and away, utd home, Everton away, Arsenal away and there have been times when I've tried to cheer myself up trying to convince myself that it means we aren't far away from being really competetive.

 

It hasn't really worked though, not least because you can easily take the opposite from it all, that we lack any of the ruthlessness needed to put ourselves in the mix.

[smithdown]

 

 

I know what you mean, but last satdee felt like a great day out, and I've enjoyed walking out of Anfield a few times knowing we've properly put a few teams to bed. Still, we've had none of those 'let's have a disco cos we've done Man Utd' moments. We were close a few times, but it just didn't happen.

 

 

 

Not just a big win against one of the mancs, a win when a win would have thrust us seriously into any sort of 'isiton' territory, as all we have had a whiff of 'isitoneventosayanythingatallshouldbeon' gloom, and it's no fun to walk away with absolutely f*ck all to show for our money.

Edited May 6, 2013 by smithdown

[DJS]

It's a poor set of results against the better sides. But the margins are so fine.

 

City away - should have won but Pepe messed up and Aguero scored a worldie. Arsenal away - should have won but we let a 0-2 lead slip. City at home, should've won but Skrtel had a brain fart. United home, should have won but conned out of it. Everton away, should have won but had a perfectly good goal ruled out. West Brom home, Stevie scores a peno and we'd most probably have won that too.

 

We have a lot of improving still to do, but 6 of those games against the top 8 sides could very easily have been wins if something stupid/out of the ordinary didnt happen.

[Cobs]

The one we did win was brain-farted to us by Spurs.

 

Last season it was the woodwork, this it's shouldawouldacoulda

[smithdown]

And in the league alone We've overtaken Newcastle, or perhaps Newcastle collapsed without our doing anything.