Zoob

Compare those 2 yellows to the single yellow Kovacic got for 2 studs up ankle fouls against Arsenal a few years back. It's astounding. So much talk about City and what a wonderful masterclass they performed, and how plucky they were with all the adversary around them yada yada yada - it's all just distracted from talk of what an absolute joke those 2 yellows were. Games would be down to 5 a side if yellows were given for fouls like that every game. Am still angry about it.

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Pretty even game before the absurd sending off. Every game from here until the end the season we will see far worse challenges not given yellow cards than the 2 that Grav got.

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Reading some of the stuff online, it's like City delivered some kinda masterclass. Was an even (and mostly pretty disappointing) game before the absurd sending off. City's (cheating built) squad depth was better than ours, and they had better luck during the international break. f*** the ref, and f*** City.

Two of the very softest yellows for Grav. Greater Manchester ref Couldn't wait to send him off. We were missing 3 super important players and gave a youngster his first prem start because of our injuries. They can bring on the likes of Doku because they've been cheating for a decade.

And their legal feels (both their own and anything they need to pay back to the Prem) and all the compensation they have to pay for folks too should count as expenses just the same as if they were using it to buy players.

This is encouraging because the conversation has significantly shifted, and the scale of their cheating is so great, that people are rightly questioning whether even 3 years out of the prem is enough. And people are rightfully questioning whether they should be able to hold onto their titles (which for me should include all titles since they started cheating). They cheated for a decade, and are still benefiting for that, so the punishment should last a similar duration. No point doing a half assed job of it at this point. And their hubris and arrogance will mean there's even less sympathy for what they hopefully have coming.

The backlash from his comments means there's presumably going to be a lot more scrutiny on any governmental interference now

In an ideal world, the punishment would be as ongoing as the period they were cheating plus the years since when even if (big if) they stopped cheating then, they were still benefiting from years of cheating. But I'm encouraged by talk of stripping titles. Not like Armstrong got to keep his after he was caught, so I don't see why City should be able to. And I'm fine with them not being re-allocated, particularly since it wouldn't balance up the harm done to Klopp's team, who are the ones who were screwed the most even if it was technically after the cheating stopped.

Seen this discussed elsewhere, and some have said City's lawyers will likely argue that this isn't valid for them as the case was brought against them well before these new appeal regulations were implemented (i.e. would only be valid for cases that started after the implementation of these appeal rules). No idea whether that route would work for them, but the'll likely give it a try as part of their general tactic to draw this out as long as possible and keep the league paying more legal fees as long as possible.

Pretty much, yep. And much of it is common sense - it's not like their sponsorship revenue took a dive after 2018, so if 80% to 90% of their sponsorship money before that was coming from the owners, it's not likely that suddenly this would have gone down to 0%, even if they were by this time on a better financial footing because of their decade of cheating.

So glad these questions are now being asked, because they got away with it for so long, it really wouldn't surprise any of us if little changed (even as their need to cook the books lessened somewhat)

Pretty bleh article, but none of these come close to the scale (magnitude and duration) and impact of City's cheating. https://www.bbc.com/sport/articles/ck62m2n3yezno

Executives of some prem clubs saying it would be commercial suicide to kick Man City out of the prem apparently. Insane. Let them get away with their cheating, because punishing them might cost us money. Sly Sports Does also include this: It's thought there is a counter-feeling among some top clubs that Manchester City remaining in the Premier League would be damaging to the brand and integrity of the competition, and that an extended period outside the top flight for City, even though it would lead to short-term financial pain, is necessary to maintain the league's global image for the future. So maybe the teams challenging City for the league want them kicked out, while the rest don't give a crap.

"Rush to judgement"? lol. Everyone suspected for years they were doing this, and the whole process has taken years to get to this point of an absolutely damning guilty verdict, and the scale and hubris of the scam being worse than many thought. Rush. Right. Also annoyingly read this on the BBC "The independent panel will hold a sanctions hearing – which could take months to convene – to decide the punishment. City can appeal both the guilty verdicts and the sanction, leaving City and the league in a state of chaos and uncertainty." - now that the cat is out of the bag, the longer this drags on, the worse it is for everyone. Like this could drag on for another couple years, but that would be absurd. I wonder at what point the 4 clubs can start their legal proceedings, because that's also gonna take a while (but at least will be purely financial and not related to points/relegation etc.)

It's possible that by that time, and having started winning so much, (additional TV and prize money etc) that they didn't actually need to cook the books anymore. I think what is worse is that even if this was the case, they denied Klopp's Liverpool from winning so much more purely because by the time he was around they were already reaping the rewards of nearly a decade of cheating.

The scale and severity of this is somehow even worse than I thought it might be. And their attempts to cover up the thing once it was under investigation just make it worse. Re the inflated sponsorship "We concluded that it was an 'explanation' that the Club had concocted well after the event in an attempt to obscure and conceal the realities of the Disguised Funding Scheme." This has been 10 plus years in the making, and they're still benefiting from it even now. A cheating scandal greater than any in the history of team sport. I imagine there's even more yet to surface. This isn't gonna go away. They should be booted out of the league, stripped of their titles, and the owners forced to sell. This can't just be a meaningless fine and a slap on the wrist.

Clear as mud really - cos would that appeal be about the guilty verdict itself rater than their punishment? or could they appeal both?

Yeah, and we all have short attention spans. But this is likely the biggest team scandal in sport history - across any sport. I still don't think it's just gonna quietly go away. Ben Jacobs saying he's heard that if (huge if) City do get kicked out of the Prem, the EFL might stand in solidarity and not allow them in either. But then he also said that legal experts think it might be 'unfair' for any punishment to be applied across a number of years... unlike how they cheated across a number of years and are still benefiting from this a number of years after the cheating concluded...

30 point fine would be absurd. It's like a slap on the wrist, that will prevent them from being in the CL, but likely won't get them relegated. Kieran Maguire trying to estimate the financial benefits of their cheating puts it at a billion quid. So a 150m fine would be peanuts. They cheated for years and years, and then even after the cheating stopped, they reaped the benefits of that, so the punishment should fit the crime. It won't happen, but should be something like a 70 point points deduction and 100m fine this season, 60 points and 90 million fine the next, 50 points and 80m, and so on. At least this is is getting such wide exposure, and creating such a level of anger (and the lawyers getting their papers ready) I do feel this can't be swept under the carpet as some felt it might be.

I'm not sure those stats are designed to show he's played well - because we can all see his struggles - but he has been putting effort in and not hiding, which is important, and he has also created a decent amount of chances that means he could easily have double the number of assists he actually has. Still doesn't change that he needs to do much better, and we expected much more from him...

That really doesn't make sense to me. All of the charges are around inflated sponsorship, inaccurate reporting, and under the table payments. The only thing left would be their failure to cooperate.