Welcome Alex Macca is a t*** Oxlade-Chamberlain

[Maldini]

Better players than Henderson that could be gettable in the summer, that I know of:

 

Nzonzi

Mascherano

Fabinho

Strootman

Krychowiak

Illarramendi

Lars Bender

 

Then you have more elusive players like Jorginho, Milinkovic-Savic and Goretzka who, Jorginho aside, may not be holding players, but whose overall quality as midfielders would be a definite step up.

 

I don't really get why people treat this position as if only a certified world class player could improve on what we have. Henderson is a good player, but there's plenty around that are better. It's an obvious point of improvement.

 

None of those bar Fabinho would be a definite improvement and even he might not be, Bakayoko looked great for Monaco but has struggled. Nzonzi is 29 and was nothing more than an average PL player, Mascherano will be 34 by the start of next season, Strootman's injury record would have to be a worry, Krychowiak looked great in Spain, failed at PSG and hasn't done much at West Brom, Illaramendi is really talented but he might struggle with the pace and power of the PL, especially with how we play. Isn't Sven the better of the Bender bros?

[Alonso]

Julian weigl at Dortmund is pretty decent by all accounts and when Klopp first arrived there was lots of talks about Ruben neves joining. Any idea on how he’s doing at wolves?

[Earl Hafler]

Ok, I don't think there are to be honest. A few maybe, but it's not a very long list and it's unlikely you're able to get them in either. But people will still complain because of an unrealistic desire for a level of performance that is bordering on impossible.

If we’d been discussing a player to replace Mané or Coutinho this summer, you would have rated Salah as decent but not outstanding and dismissed him.

 

Your ( our ) knowledge of the European game doesn’t appear to be of the required standard to make such bold statements, dismiss suggestions to reaffirm a position that says “ top class defenders are rare, top class midfielders are scarce “

 

There’s an assumption that all the best players are spotted at some point but it’s not logical. A player can choose the wrong club, play for the wrong manager or just decide to remain loyal to a club during his peak, when that peak would be higher at an even more suitable club.

 

I’d expect our scouts to have the capacity to identify players at smaller clubs or on the periphery at another big club and decide that he has the potential to exceed the level of performance we’re currently seeing in Gini and Hendo. That list should dwarf any we post on here.

Loyalty is admirable but we’re here to win trophies. That’s the ethos I expect from owners and manager.

 

Salah was one of those decisions, Mané before him, Coutinho before him. Very, very few players are irreplaceable and there are enough players across Europe to realise that using margins as narrow as yours...well, it’s wrong.

 

Acquiring them and selling the squad player being replaced is the more material problem

I'm lost, which player sounds like a 63?

The player that could replace Hendo in this system. I’ll find the post for you.

 

http://www.ynwa.tv/topic/161057-welcome-georginio-wijnaldum/?p=4172409

Edited December 18, 2017 by Earl Hafler

[Hightown Phil]

If we’d been discussing a player to replace Mané or Coutinho this summer, you would have rated Salah as decent but not outstanding and dismissed him.

 

Your ( our ) knowledge of the European game doesn’t appear to be of the required standard to make such bold statements, dismiss suggestions to reaffirm a position that says “ top class defenders are rare, top class midfielders are scarce “

 

 

To be honest, I don't put any emphasis on my knowledge. It's absolutely irrelevant, as is yours. We can say whatever we want and there's no come back, and there's no reward for being correct, it's just an opinion on football. Again, the defenders thing wasn't a bold statement based on me looking at defenders and having an opinion on how good they were, i don't care how good I think they are, it doesn't matter, it's by seeing United and Spurs paying £40m for two players who've done absolutely nothing. If there were freely avaliable top defenders then that doesn't happen - the market forces dictate this.

 

I think the skillset required to play the role that Henderson plays, to the level that people want to see from a player is huge and there aren't many players in the last 20 years who existed who would do it like people would like Hopefully these scouts find us a player, I just think the bar to be a one man midfield is incredibly high. Not because there aren't good players out there, because the sheer level of what's being asked is so high. There are going to be some deficiencies in whoever we have playing there I think.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Hightown Phil

[Kid Klopp]

None of those bar Fabinho would be a definite improvement and even he might not be, Bakayoko looked great for Monaco but has struggled. Nzonzi is 29 and was nothing more than an average PL player, Mascherano will be 34 by the start of next season, Strootman's injury record would have to be a worry, Krychowiak looked great in Spain, failed at PSG and hasn't done much at West Brom, Illaramendi is really talented but he might struggle with the pace and power of the PL, especially with how we play. Isn't Sven the better of the Bender bros?

 

Age is not a factor in whether they are better. Nzonzi is if anything a good example of a talented player who looked good in patches for a lesser club frequently up against it and stepped up his game for a bigger club with better players.

 

I haven't seen them much this season, but I always considered Lars the better of the two.

 

Bottomline is regardless of question marks they are better players. It's not that hard to determine. We'll need a new one when Can goes to juve. I don't get why people are so resistant to the idea of getting in someone that's an upgrade on what we have.

[Hightown Phil]

Is N'Zonzi really someone who sits though? I always thought he was someone who was a bit more box to box. 

[Kid Klopp]

I think the skillset required to play the role that Henderson plays, to the level that people want to see from a player is huge and there aren't many players in the last 20 years who existed who would do it like people would like Hopefully these scouts find us a player, I just think the bar to be a one man midfield is incredibly high. Not because there aren't good players out there, because the sheer level of what's being asked is so high. There are going to be some deficiencies in whoever we have playing there I think.

 

This is all over the place. You can't seriously be saying that there aren't many players in the past 20 years who could fill Henderson's shoes.

 

Henderson isn't being asked to play a one man midfield ffs, nor will anyone else. He plays in a 3 man midfield. If anything, that gives your deeper midfielder more help and protection than a 2-man midfield would. You are vastly overstating the demands being placed on the role. It's no more than what's been asked of midfielders since forever. Need to be able to play a bit and still get stuck in.

[Hightown Phil]

This is all over the place. You can't seriously be saying that there aren't many players in the past 20 years who could fill Henderson's shoes.

 

Well it's a good job that's not what I'm saying isn't it?

Edited December 18, 2017 by Hightown Phil

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

Pogba/Phil is the most mental shout I've seen in a while

[scoose]

Pogba/Phil is the most mental shout I've seen in a while

 

defo

[jimbolala]

So first of all, only VDV can solve our defence, now people think we cant do better than Henderson in midfield! Stop all transfer activity now then lads, we're sorted.

[Hightown Phil]

So first of all, only VDV can solve our defence, now people think we cant do better than Henderson in midfield! Stop all transfer activity now then lads, we're sorted.

I don’t think a single person has said we can’t do better than Henderson in our midfield have they?

[Kid Klopp]

I don’t think a single person has said we can’t do better than Henderson in our midfield have they?

It's 2 pages ago you were wondering out loud if a player that is just a bit better all round than Henderson even exists and that any suggested alternatives won't really improve us.

[Hightown Phil]

‘Better defensively while on a technical level of Joe Allen’.

 

I presume you think Allen is better Henderson technically, I disagree but that doesn’t matter.

 

I’m not seeing this player anywhere in England, hence why I queried if he exists.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Hightown Phil

[Case]

I think many are looking for a player who is (far) better than Henderson in positively dictating play from deep - a forward driving technical metronome for want of a better phrase, and there are probably loads of better phrases, while that same player should also be (far) better at protecting our soft centred central defence. Add in a but of leadership too, that'd be good.

 

This player would indeed be a step up on Henderson.

 

But damned if I can name one who is realistically available with all of these qualities in high measure.

 

So the answer is Henderson or someone else with not all of these characteristics at the top top level. A better player, and there certainly are a good few, but who will have some flaws as most players do.

 

IF this is what HPhil is getting at, and I might be way off, then I agree with him.

[Billy Talbot]

That polish lad who went to West Brom from PSG but can’t get a game would maybe be a shout.

[Flanders]

Just sign better midfielders than Henderson and let him either improve or drop to the bench.

[Hightown Phil]

I think many are looking for a player who is (far) better than Henderson in positively dictating play from deep - a forward driving technical metronome for want of a better phrase, and there are probably loads of better phrases, while that same player should also be (far) better at protecting our soft centred central defence. Add in a but of leadership too, that'd be good.

 

This player would indeed be a step up on Henderson.

 

But damned if I can name one who is realistically available with all of these qualities in high measure.

 

So the answer is Henderson or someone else with not all of these characteristics at the top top level. A better player, and there certainly are a good few, but who will have some flaws as most players do.

 

IF this is what HPhil is getting at, and I might be way off, then I agree with him.

This is exactly it.

 

Hurrah.

[Jarg Armani]

Did someone say Goretzka in any of these lists? He'd be a good shout wouldn't he to tick a lot of these long term JH replacement boxes?

[Swipe]

He’d be a great signing. Free signings of that quality don’t happen too often.

[Earl Hafler]

I think many are looking for a player who is (far) better than Henderson in positively dictating play from deep - a forward driving technical metronome for want of a better phrase, and there are probably loads of better phrases, while that same player should also be (far) better at protecting our soft centred central defence. Add in a but of leadership too, that'd be good.

This player would indeed be a step up on Henderson.

But damned if I can name one who is realistically available with all of these qualities in high measure.

So the answer is Henderson or someone else with not all of these characteristics at the top top level. A better player, and there certainly are a good few, but who will have some flaws as most players do.

IF this is what HPhil is getting at, and I might be way off, then I agree with him.

The guy doesn’t have to be Alonso, particularly with Keita arriving soon

 

HP also said Kante or Matic wouldn’t be good enough. It’s bulls***.

 

The notion that there are just one or two centre halves that could improve the defence or there’d be only a couple of midfielders available if we chose to improve on Hendo....f***ing baffles me when there’s evidence in our team that players can adapt and improve

 

Chelsea won the title last season with Matic as the deepest midfielder, Kante being more mobile, pressing. So with Keita arriving and being superior to Kante creativitely, why wouldn’t a player like Matic be good enough ?

 

Fernandinho has been doing the Hendo role at City. There hasn’t been another holding player alongside him ( he and Gundogan have started about 4 games together ), it’s often been Silva and De Bruyne ahead of him in a 1-2 midfield.

[Case]

Agree Earl, but I'm talking within the context of our current style which clearly isn't as evolved as City's or (thankfully) Utd's. The other, obvious, difference is that Fernandinho does that job so well at City because he is surrounded on all sides by lads costing £50m+

 

You give him options wide left and right with Robertson and TAA (with the greatest respect to both) instead of Mendy and Walker and all of a sudden he has more work to do. Ditto most other players on the park.

 

Put Henderson in City's team and the drop off in quality isn't as significant I don't think. Henderson was a large part of a team that won 12/13 in a row not that long ago, so he's not a mug.

 

But...

 

Upgrade on Henderson?

Yes please!!

 

Change our style slightly to accommodate the new Kante/Matic/Fernandinho we've just bought?

Sure, if it makes us a more solid, more dynamic team.

 

Don't upgrade significantly elsewhere?

Ok, then the flaws of the new guy are getting exposed too. In time, at least.

 

We'd still be better, of course, with an upgrade on Hendo, or Gini or, more obviously, both our centre backs and keeper, but there's a lot of work to do to make us competitive at the top end in the new world being drawn by ¢ity.

[Benzo-13]

Go back in for Dahoud. He’s not getting a game at Dortmund because they have too many players.

[Hightown Phil]

The guy doesn’t have to be Alonso, particularly with Keita arriving soon

 

HP also said Kante or Matic wouldn’t be good enough. It’s bulls***.

 

The notion that there are just one or two centre halves that could improve the defence or there’d be only a couple of midfielders available if we chose to improve on Hendo....f***ing baffles me when there’s evidence in our team that players can adapt and improve

 

Chelsea won the title last season with Matic as the deepest midfielder, Kante being more mobile, pressing. So with Keita arriving and being superior to Kante creativitely, why wouldn’t a player like Matic be good enough ?

 

Fernandinho has been doing the Hendo role at City. There hasn’t been another holding player alongside him ( he and Gundogan have started about 4 games together ), it’s often been Silva and De Bruyne ahead of him in a 1-2 midfield.

I don’t think Matic is anywhere near good enough on the ball to be given it 100 times a game and expected to dictate from deep in such a way that there isn’t the drop off I’m talking about. Chelsea’s system was also different in that they had 3 centre backs and wing backs. He wasn’t asked to be a playmaker. Edited December 19, 2017 by Hightown Phil

[Conrad]

Delph plays regularly for City

 

a fully fit Henderson is absolutely good enough. Unfortunately he has struggled with injuries and their impact on his game has been detrimental