Pako

[Hodgson for Chelsea]

Recently I've been thinking into all this as much as I can and trying to make sense of where it all went wrong.

 

At first I have subscribed to the 'Alonso leaving is to blame for everything' opinion, but now I am thinking about other things as well.

 

Every top manager relies on a top assistant to get results and to motivate players. Mourinho relied heavily on Steve Clark at Chelsea, for example. Ferguson has always been very picky when it comes to his second in command.

 

A lot of people mentioned Houllier seemed to go downhill after the loss of his assistant, and, whilst last season we had a stormer I am wondering if Rafa being surrounded by YES men is affecting us.

 

I mean, look - everyone on this forum has their opinion on what we should do now. At times the opinion of the number 2 should differ from the boss and the boss should take their advice on board. GH was advised correctly that Baros shouldn't be bought. Rafa was advised correctly not to by Babel (I am assuming it was Babel he fell out with Pako over).

 

What has changed?

 

Rafa has been given free reign over transfers (admittedly with no money) and over the operation as a whole. He has never had this before in his career.

 

I think the guy is a legend but I think he is being too stubborn for his own good here. He told the owners he could get 18m odd for Alonso and buy Gareth Barry for less. As it turned out Villa wouldn't play ball with Barry for less than 18m and nobody wanted Alonso at 18m - so Rafa tarted him around the clubs like Arsenal and Juve via the press, whilst leaking details of the bid for Barry. This annoyed Xabi who decided to leave. Rather than staying in touch with Barry and making him feel a part of the future there was no contact (that I know of) and Barry, being offered good money and a central role with no dithering on offers and negotiation, took the deal at City.

 

 

You can defend Rafa till the cows come home, and as I say I think he's done a great job. But don't blame all this on the owners.

 

Lest we forget the Mancs have sold their prize asset for 80m and bought a replacement for 20m...it's not all about money, no way.

[floyd the barber]

personally think Houllier and Rafas times at the club are remarably similar..

 

- both found major success early on

- both lost their right hand man (houllier - bergues, Rafa - pako), did well for a season...then ultimatly struggled.

- both had to spend some time in hospital...that same season, we finished 2nd

- both are stubborn beyond belief and tend to have favourites

- both have stuggled to buy any decent players for the wing and full back positions.....seriously has anyone we have paid money for in the past 10 years on either side actually been a consistent solid buy?

[Hodgson for Chelsea]

personally think Houllier and Rafas times at the club are remarably similar..

 

- both found major success early on

- both lost their right hand man (houllier - bergues, Rafa - pako), did well for a season...then ultimatly struggled.

- both had to spend some time in hospital...that same season, we finished 2nd

- both are stubborn beyond belief and tend to have favourites

- both have stuggled to buy any decent players for the wing and full back positions.....seriously has anyone we have paid money for in the past 10 years on either side actually been a consistent solid buy?

 

Only Reira for me has been a good wing man. And Rafa dropped him.

[Gerrardrules]

The way several membersof the backroom staff have been sacked in the summer may have some influence on this mess as well.

Some popular members have been shifted by Rafa who have had worked at the club for over ten years. I heard they got a text message from Rafa to see him.

 

And Rafa never returned the messages Carra and Stevie send him before Owen signed for the mancs. He wanted to return. Carra and Stevie send Rafa several text messages but he never answered them.

 

I think Rafa dug his own hole this summer.

[Redkop]

Good post stozza and it bears an awful lot of truth in what you say.

[Walrus]

And Rafa never returned the messages Carra and Stevie send him before Owen signed for the mancs. He wanted to return. Carra and Stevie send Rafa several text messages but he never answered them.

 

I hope this is true. Only I wish he'd have replied to them saying something like: 'HOLA AMIGOS! U THINK OWEN IS A NICE BOY AND "PERFECT". I THINK HE'S A s*** CVNT. NO DEAL, NO? -LATERS, RAFA'

[kop205]

Lest we forget the Mancs have sold their prize asset for 80m and bought a replacement for 20m...it's not all about money, no way.

 

And just lost their fifth league game of the season on Saturday.

 

I've said it a few times but if - and there are some reasons to believe that it is the case - their free-spending days are over then I fully expect them to struggle, massively.

 

Their saving grace this season, and why they are only four points behind, is that nobody else has taken a grip of things. They are horrendously reliant on Rooney in the attacking third and have looked shaky at the back even when they've had people availaible there this season.

 

Of course it isn't 'all about money' but it is a way bigger factor than anything else and United are proving that every bit as well as we are this year.

[cymrococh]

The way several membersof the backroom staff have been sacked in the summer may have some influence on this mess as well.

Some popular members have been shifted by Rafa who have had worked at the club for over ten years. I heard they got a text message from Rafa to see him.

 

And Rafa never returned the messages Carra and Stevie send him before Owen signed for the mancs. He wanted to return. Carra and Stevie send Rafa several text messages but he never answered them.

 

I think Rafa dug his own hole this summer.

Because Owen would have made a massive difference.

 

No manager should be listening to players about signings.

[charlie clown]

Because Owen would have made a massive difference.

 

No manager should be listening to players about signings.

 

Exactly - look at how poor the mancs have been this season and he's hardly been leading from the front there.

[richwilks]

Exactly - look at how poor the mancs have been this season and he's hardly been leading from the front there.

 

He's done nowhere near as well as N'gog.

[Andy @ Allerton]

The way several membersof the backroom staff have been sacked in the summer may have some influence on this mess as well.

Some popular members have been shifted by Rafa who have had worked at the club for over ten years. I heard they got a text message from Rafa to see him.

 

And Rafa never returned the messages Carra and Stevie send him before Owen signed for the mancs. He wanted to return. Carra and Stevie send Rafa several text messages but he never answered them.

 

I think Rafa dug his own hole this summer.

 

 

My support for Rafa has just doubled. If he knew Owen wanted to return and f***ed him off then that's brilliant.

[kop205]

And Rafa never returned the messages Carra and Stevie send him before Owen signed for the mancs. He wanted to return. Carra and Stevie send Rafa several text messages but he never answered them.

 

When of course what any decent manager would have been doing would have been texting straight back to say 'Gr8 idea mate, lol @ Ferguson when we get him, chat more 2mz'.

[dl2009]

'Gr8 idea mate, lol @ Ferguson when we get him, chat more 2mz'.

 

Rafa?

[Andy @ Allerton]

When of course what any decent manager would have been doing would have been texting straight back to say 'Gr8 idea mate, lol @ Ferguson when we get him, chat more 2mz'.

 

 

[Nerik]

personally think Houllier and Rafas times at the club are remarably similar..

 

- both found major success early on

- both lost their right hand man (houllier - bergues, Rafa - pako), did well for a season...then ultimatly struggled.

- both had to spend some time in hospital...that same season, we finished 2nd

- both are stubborn beyond belief and tend to have favourites

- both have stuggled to buy any decent players for the wing and full back positions.....seriously has anyone we have paid money for in the past 10 years on either side actually been a consistent solid buy?

 

 

We lost Pako early in the 07/08 season. We went on to do better than in 06/07 and improved again the following season, so the similarity with Bergues is not true in that respect.

[john_lfc]

Nothing to do with him leaving

 

Poor excuse

[Chili Palmer]

Nothing to do with him leaving

 

Poor excuse

 

 

yeah its a massive stretch

[cymrococh]

Hang about, is stozza the one who always asks about Pako before posting stuff about Rafa's marriage?

[Frosty Jack]

Unfortunately I always had my doubts about Sammy Lee coming back, him plus certain physios returning = the Houllier era staff. I may be clutching at straws but its at least as tangible as talking about the loss of Pako for me.

[carrafan]

Not getting Owen isnt an issue for me at all. If we'd got him and he'd done what he's doing for the Mancs with us having similar results, we'd have been blaming Rafa for not letting young 'uns get game experience. And lets be honest, Ngog has done quite well scoring more league goals than Owen.. plus he can play in the lone striker role unlike the midget whose lost all his pace.

 

 

With regards to the Pako situation, I dont know. I dont know what the assistant manager's role was with Pako around and i dont know what Sammy 'specialises' in. What i do know is, along with our manager, our other fantastic international players are not doing their jobs and people arent blaming enough of them. Its time for them to take on responsibility on the pitch than moan about it.

[domlfc]

Stozza , great post up until the bit about not blaming the owners for all of this. The owners are to blame for everything from the inability to sign who Rafa wants through to our new stadium being built, anyone who cares to differ should have a close look at the way financing has been handled in the last year alone!! Pako my a***, clutching at massive straws as to why our season has gone so awry. G+H are bleeding us dry in footballing and financial terms, end of.

[Hodgson for Chelsea]

Hang about, is stozza the one who always asks about Pako before posting stuff about Rafa's marriage?

 

You've lost me.

 

All I know is - Rafa has got rid of Pako, Parry has gone and he now has full control over everything. When teams go on a good run the yes men can sit back and lavish praise on the boss. When things go wrong the number 2 needs to have a word and express the feelings of the players also. Apparently Pako was very popular with the players and maybe they feel Rafa isn't listening to them at all anymore. For example look at the game with Spurs - Carra didn't want to pass the ball to Lucas at all - every time he had the option he bypassed him it was like watching two school boys who didn't get on!

 

Re money yeah agreed the oweners have really messed things up I agree there was nowhere near as much invested in the team as was needed.

 

Re the mancs they are still in the title race despite having lost their entire defence. I don't think they've been THAT bad at all.

 

We'll never know how Owen would have worked - he always linked brilliantly with Gerrard though.

[Benzo-13]

The old Owen did, not the current version.

[Hassony]

f*** Pako, it's all gone s*** since we got rid of Parry

 

Bring Back Parry

[dl2009]

I do know that Rafa and Pako's relationship had been on a downward spiral for about a year prior to Ayesteran leaving the club. A certain Xabi Alonso knocked on the managers door the same day Pako told the players he was leaving and expressed his dismay at the removal of a popular figure...