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Rafa talks about his exit


Ed the Wool

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Its hard to imagine what RH could say after the bad results that would make you go 'well, we got tonked today, but the manager's erudite post match summary will send me home with a warmer glow now'.

 

All managers look like malfunctioning desperate t*** after a series of bad results. I wanted to stay respectful towards Rafa last season (despite wanting a change of manager) but when you hear the umpteenth delusionary, question avoiding post match interview, you start to get irrationally resentful. It was a feeling that passed cos you realise that after a beating there is literally nothing they can say that will make it better. If anything just having to see their kippers makes it worse.

He could start by not saying that piss poor performances that end in a draw are good results.

 

After Man City I'd like him to have said

 

'I accept that the team I set up gave Manchester City to much space to play, we tried to change that in the second half and although things improved we made mistakes that cost us goals'

 

After Birmingham I'd have like him to say

 

'The performances are not good enough at the moment, it's not a bad point but it's still points dropped'

 

After Sunderland

 

'We cannot continue to let teams dominate us, we threw away the lead at home. It's just not acceptable to go in front at Anfield and then to sit back and absorb pressure'

 

After Blackpool

 

'I quit'

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Manager is judged on results. if Hodgson has won his matches, we would not have any discussion on his suitability (and he would not need to have said and would be forgiven for saying those daft things). Simply put, the results and performance have been below par even with a weaken squad.

 

It is still too early to write off any manager, even if the way he has been trying to set up the team has not inspired confidence.

 

We do not judged a manager on strength of character. However, strength of character is ESSENTIAL for a manager in a big club like ours, as without which he can never survive a dressing room of egos.

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i honestly cant think of a post i have disagreed with more. what a manager says or does in the media is largely an irrelevant.

 

if the team is winning every week, the manager can say what he likes to the media. makes f*** all difference.

 

if the team is getting beat then it makes no odds what he says to the media, he can say all the right things, but it wont matter to me, because the team is losing.

 

and wanting a manager retained for non footballing reasons over footballing reasons is something i could never, and will never understand. the managers job is to manage the team, not give sound bites to the media. it really is, or at least should be, that cut and dried.

 

The dealing with the media thing is not something I was thinking of when I wrote the post, so I will swerve that one. That's an argument you're having with someone else. But everything else I mentioned is vital to how successful a manager will be and therefore cannot be discounted.

 

And the last 12 months at Liverpool would strongly suggest that it is not cut and dried that the manager should only focus on results. I expect more of the manager, we got that from Rafa and I am grateful for it since it played it's own important role in showing up the Americans for what they are.

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Its hard to imagine what RH could say after the bad results that would make you go 'well, we got tonked today, but the manager's erudite post match summary will send me home with a warmer glow now'.

 

Ferguson is brilliant at it.

 

Again, I suppose that's the kind of thing that's easier when you run the show, but still. He's frequently done post match interviews that have struck fear into their next 10 opponents.

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Hodgson's performance in front of the media is indicative of what he will be like in his communication with the players. Same with all managers.

 

Ferguson might well be a c***, but he creates a "them and us" style with the media, which you know is carried on with the players. Wenger is the same, "our team play football everyone else is a thug, we must be protected yadda yadda", this is echoed by his players. Coyle projects a certain image in his media interviews which I think is reflected by his team.

 

Hodgson, or anyone else for that matter, cannot present one persona to one group and a completely different one to another group, certainly not on a consistent basis. In front of the media Hodgson comes across as under pressure, not capable of dealing with a "big job" and his behaviour during games echoes this - sitting down, head in hands, no instructions to the team, late substitutions despite performances. This is further backed up by the results which again suggest he is not up to the job.

 

He might be able to point to the turmoil off the pitch as being the reasons for poor results, hopefully he will shortly not have this as an excuse.

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like i said, what is said to the media doesnt matter. look at the s**** baconface or Mourinho talk at every press conference. its crinngeworthy at best. doesnt matter though, no one questions them. why? because their teams win.

 

Terrible. terrible example. Mourinho treats the media perfectly. Even in Italy where they hated him, he had them eating out of his hand.

 

You can debate about whether he was 'classy' or whether you agree what he says but how he treats them is a massive part of why they treat him with kid gloves, not only because he wins.

 

it shows how far the game has changed when a manager has to buy time with fans by saying nice things to the press. its not something i will ever fathom. you're old enough to remember Paisley and Fagan. you'd never have seen them in the press, and we were the best side in the world at the time, while at the same time you had Atkinson and Clough and a few others who never had their face out of the press. but then, Paisley and Fagan were successful. so no one give a s***.

 

Well, there's not much to be done to change that, is there.

 

(And saying Atkinson and Clough never had their face out of the paper is a bit OTT. Coverage of the game then was obviously nothing like it is now.)

 

Ok, I just realised I got sucked in to the media thing... :) But I leave it by echoing le2red - human nature demands that we make interpretations and judgements on someone's ability to do something in all kinds of ways. Nobody can tell me credibly that seeing how Roy has handled himself in his public utterances hasn't influenced how they regard his job competence.

 

If only football was simply about results it would be great, much more like it used to be. But it's not.

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Terrible. terrible example. Mourinho treats the media perfectly. Even in Italy where they hated him, he had them eating out of his hand.

 

You can debate about whether he was 'classy' or whether you agree what he says but how he treats them is a massive part of why they treat him with kid gloves, not only because he wins.

 

 

 

Well, there's not much to be done to change that, is there.

 

(And saying Atkinson and Clough never had their face out of the paper is a bit OTT. Coverage of the game then was obviously nothing like it is now.)

 

 

 

no. its the perfect example. he tells them what he wants. there have been numerous occassions when he has talked absolute b******s, the Anders Frisk situation, the Ambulance at Reading are the two that spring to mind. but becasue his teams win, and continue to win, they get over looked.

 

winning teams give leeway with the media. you win every week you say what you like, no one cares. your team is losing, and everything is scruntinized to the nth degree. thats how it is

 

Atkinson and Clough had their nibs in every media outlet available at the time. the press, whatever tv shows there were, footie magazines, they were everywhere. yes, the me media has changed, the principle hasnt

 

 

 

edit and football is only about the results. thats it. when you lose sight of that you may give up. its all about the results. its about the winning. its not political, its not conditional. its about playing the game, doing your best and trying to win

Edited by Gunga Din
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no. its the perfect example. he tells them what he wants. there have been numerous occassions when he has talked absolute b******s, the Anders Frisk situation, the Ambulance at Reading are the two that spring to mind. but becasue his teams win, and continue to win, they get over looked.

 

winning teams give leeway with the media. you win every week you say what you like, no one cares. your team is losing, and everything is scruntinized to the nth degree. thats how it is

 

Atkinson and Clough had their nibs in every media outlet available at the time. the press, whatever tv shows there were, footie magazines, they were everywhere. yes, the me media has changed, the principle hasnt

 

Mourinho has the x-factor. He has the intelligence and wit to treat the media on his own terms and he wins loads of football matches. Both are components of what it takes to be successful in football these days. No successful manager is a shrinking violet and they don't grow the balls to be that way because they win a few games.

 

Anyways, this wasn't my row, I just disagree with you. Unsurprisingly I suppose given how we've seen the last 6 months as if they have happened on different planets.

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Ferguson is brilliant at it.

 

Again, I suppose that's the kind of thing that's easier when you run the show, but still. He's frequently done post match interviews that have struck fear into their next 10 opponents.

 

He just goes red in the face, calls the ref a cheat, and storms off, and makes it all justifiable by winning the next 5 matches.

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what he says in the conferences about expectations, the selection of players, the choices made in the transfer market all go together to form an impression of his objectives, whether he has a powerful vision of a winning side.

If you could see his plan and think, I can see why he's making these adjustments in the short term because yes he wants to get us playing in a certain way, then you could maybe swallow the results in the short term. But there's nothing in what he says, or the way he's reshaped the squad, or the tactics on the pitch, that tells me he knows what to do to improve on what Rafa left him.

Thats why i'm critical of his off field comments, as part of the total package of his mangement and not giving that criticism seniority to criticism of his management of the team on the field of play.

 

There is also the fact he was less than generous to the efforts of fans who had to protest at Hicks and Gillet.

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Mourinho has the x-factor. He has the intelligence and wit to treat the media on his own terms and he wins loads of football matches. Both are components of what it takes to be successful in football these days. No successful manager is a shrinking violet and they don't grow the balls to be that way because they win a few games.

 

Anyways, this wasn't my row, I just disagree with you. Unsurprisingly I suppose given how we've seen the last 6 months as if they have happened on different planets.

 

 

Mourinho has teh x factor because his teams win. its that simple.

 

its not unsurprising at all we dont agree. i look at the game of football for what it is. a game of football. you dont

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The man describes that victory over Trabzonspor as 'our famous win in Turkey'. Well for him - with his 35 years experience and his coronation back in May - it probably was, but for us - our players and our supporters - it certainly wasn't.

 

That's the disconnect right there.

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He could start by not saying that piss poor performances that end in a draw are good results.

 

After Man City I'd like him to have said

 

'I accept that the team I set up gave Manchester City to much space to play, we tried to change that in the second half and although things improved we made mistakes that cost us goals'

 

After Birmingham I'd have like him to say

 

'The performances are not good enough at the moment, it's not a bad point but it's still points dropped'

 

After Sunderland

 

'We cannot continue to let teams dominate us, we threw away the lead at home. It's just not acceptable to go in front at Anfield and then to sit back and absorb pressure'

 

After Blackpool

 

'I quit'

 

:lol:

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The man describes that victory over Trabzonspor as 'our famous win in Turkey'. Well for him - with his 35 years experience and his coronation back in May - it probably was, but for us - our players and our supporters - it certainly wasn't.

 

That's the disconnect right there.

How f***ing 'not getting it' do you have to be to come out with that 'our famous win in Turkey' and not be talking about Istanbul.

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How f***ing 'not getting it' do you have to be to come out with that 'our famous win in Turkey' and not be talking about Istanbul.

I saw that as him trying to erase something.

 

Look at the state of us in the relegation zone thanks to him at the mercy of a 9pt deduction.

He was brought in with a brief to keep it steady during the turmoil of a takeover but instead has latched onto it as an excuse.

He's incompetent and has to go.

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If you describe anybody as having "the X factor" you need to take a long hard look in the mirror, imo.

 

it was the term being used in the discussion Des....as far as I'm concerned he's is and will always remain a grade a c*** and I don't want him anywhere near us.

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