Damian_de

I'm not under the impression we exactly dwell on the ball now, although we certainly aren't using it well. edit: in fact, up until this season I think our use of the ball is one of the most pleasing things about the side. this year, with confidence on the seemingly ever downwards spiral half the team seem to have forgotten how to move, or control the thing.

Stoke away is not the start of the season. Lucas and Mascherano played CM together plenty of times last season. What are the significant tactical differences you speak of?

You ever watch Sacchi's team, mate? They could up tempo with the best of them. We don't play the same as them anyway, he BASED some of his ideas on them - the obvious part being whats best for the team trumping whats best for the individual.

Tactics didn't hold us back last season though did they - can you point out any significant differences in the tactics we employed at the start of this season compared to at the end of last? Re: John an Rhein's post... we are comfortably top half, so I think he's spot on there in saying this is bad 'by Rafa's standards' but not flat out useless. The thing about evolving the style, clearly ever since the Alonso-Barry business he's been looking to evolve something to take another step, but we have been playing pretty decent standard of football for seasons now, it's not like trying to evolve from the GH blanket defence - ball over the top to Owen stuff.

And not true. But never mind. translation: hire & fire is good. the league is our birthright. *throws toys from pram*

Does it not also depend on their willingness to move? They have contracts, they probably have the honour to stick it out for at least another season, too. I think it more likely that they are frustrated by being unable to halt the decline, because of not being fit... But failure to reach the CL will surely have very significant consequences for us, and we can't say what lengths the owners will go to to service the debt. Thing is, this shouldn't be surprising anyone. What's their modus-operandi (or Hicks, at least) been elsewhere? Exactly the nightmare scenario, asset stripped and profit made. Don't think this season's car crash in slow motion performances have done much to make our situation worse, tbh, because we have been f***ed ever since those 2 took over.

Not the best example in many peoples' eyes, but tbf Traore came through and played a lot. The thing is, we're not really getting the 'sure things' like Arsenal in particular, because we aren't paying the high fees, wages, atractive sign ons and so on - we're shopping in the bracket below. Pacheco and Bruna are perhaps the only 2 who we might have signed who are in the really top class youngsters bracket. And then there's the one who got away - Essien.

Genius How about if we changed the premier league rules so that only teams whose names begin and end with an L can enter?

Arsenal have disintegrated without those 2 in seasons past, whereas we did OK without SG and Tog for fairly long periods last season. Not as simple as you make it out to be, IMHO> Agreed. I still think it's a big jump with no evidence to say Gerrard has lost faith. It's hardly any time since he said he wants to stay here for his whole career, he's as happy as he's ever been, and so on. So given that, my feeling is he isn't fit, and we all know how lousy he can play when he's not there physically.

I did have a look, as someone referenced it earlier, and the Carra's family thing was interesting (in a 'that's unexpected'-way), but he admits the Gerrard and Carra losing faith is merely guess work.

f***ing Tottenham? Get a grip, people. And we played better football than Arsenal the past 3 seasons (this one not, for sure).

Asking for Dalglish is basically looking for your mummy's t**. 'I need to feel better, and I need to feel better now.' And therefore it doesn't surprise me that it's a popular opinion No denying the man's legendary status, but huge questions over whether he could deliver anything but a feel good factor, and huge questions about whether he'd let himself be played to Rafa's detriment also.

It's also important to remember that while we're turning profits in transfer windows we're also making a massive effort to shift wages... don't think you'll find we are dwarfing Spurs any more, and are certainly behind both Mancs, and Chelsea..

No mention of Sacchi yet? I like his thinking on generalists vs specialists (he believes the proliferation of specialist players is to the detriment of the team) Kind of weird that he was at Real for Galacticos round 1, in that case.

Yes. All the evidence shows the link between money and success in this league - specifically massive wage bill and success. We're shifting cost off our wage bill dramatically at the same time as not reinvesting transfer income. We have a few top earners, of course, but the trend is down, and thats your straight forward recipe for disaster.

What about, the owners don't sack him, we get some investment, buy some quality and win the league 10 seasons straight, completing a record busting 8 straight CL wins? Not saying I think that's all likely, but merely to illustrate the weakness of becoming so entrenched in your position. If nothing will change your mind, why don't you chill out and go read a book or something?

You are mental, I'm sorry. 1) Moyes has no credentials to suggest he's a better manager than Rafa. 2) Like f*** would he sign for us. 3) We do not have a pot to piss in. And if you believe we do, then there is nothing anyone can do to help you see some sense. I do agree with you on one thing, though, which is that the effort this season is well below acceptable.

And that there is the thing. AT THE MOMENT Everton are playing better than us, I completely agree. For the first time since? I'm not referring to the quoted poster here, but this place is Sky Sports instant gratification madness in many cases. It's pathetic that people just can't handle a bit of rough with all the smooth of the last few seasons.

Where's the evidence of that?

And if you needed any more evidence this a WUM post there it is

When have we ever played well at Wigan, though? Shambles this evening. No excuses for Rafa - don't want him sacked though. He's still not the problem at the club, and he isn't ever gonna be while those 2 rape us.

Yossi with a Pele move

Livid about Pacheco, Kelly, Amoo and so on. Even though thats not a confirmed team.

"That story's actually about Bobby Moore, isn't it?" It may well be, but I'm not having it the KK didn't know who he was (or Jack Charlton for that matter)