Mihir Bose

[The Hitman]

So it's got nothing to do with the different classes of the supporters and players,has it Mihir? What a complete f*cking idiot,how did he get to be where he is by writing such generalised and simplistic s***e?

 

 

Rugby fans set the gold standard

Mihir Bose - BBC sports editor 22 Oct 07, 03:37 PM The Rugby World Cup may not have ended in the right result for England, but the sport can draw much satisfaction from the way the tournament was organised.

 

The contrast with the football equivalent could not be more vivid or more favourable to the oval ball.

 

For a start, there is the behaviour of the two sets of fans, particularly English ones.

 

The Rugby World Cup final in Paris saw English supporters, the vast majority of whom did not have tickets, flood into the French capital.

 

Yet there was none of the bleating about discrimination we get from English football fans before a game overseas.

 

In Paris, I met hundreds of English rugby fans who happily accepted that they did not have tickets.

 

They had not expected England to be in the final and had only decided to come to Paris after the semi-final victory over the French.

 

 

While they were still hopeful of getting a ticket, they were keener still to savour the atmosphere.

 

Maybe this is because English football fans go to tournaments with unrealistic hopes of what their team will do.

 

In contrast, English rugby fans did not have any great expectations prior to this World Cup and were grateful their team gave them an extra two weeks of thrills and memories.

 

Then there was the contrast in the drinking habits of the fans.

 

It has always amused me that the problem of football hooliganism is often ascribed to drinking. Drinking may be an excuse for bad behaviour but it has never been the cause.

 

In rugby, the sport is kept in sensible proportions.

 

For example, I wandered around the Stade de France about four hours before kick-off and saw the English and South Africans drinking and joshing with each other without the slightest hint they would come to blows.

 

Football may have done much to rid itself of the terrible atmosphere it had in the 70s and 80s, but an England match can still carry an air of menace.

 

But perhaps the most vivid contrast between the two World Cups came in their respective finals.

 

In Berlin in July 2006, the decisive moment was the red card for French midfielder Zinedine Zidane.

 

I was in the crowd and we had no explanation as to why he had been sent off.

 

One moment a French attack had been cleared, then, after gesticulation from Italian goalkeeper Gianluigi Buffon, Zidane was suddenly shown the red card.

 

Those back home watching the television replays knew Zidane had headbutted Marco Materazzi, but this was unknown to the vast majority of the spectators inside the ground.

 

 

 

A group sitting next to me formed the view that Buffon had played a dirty trick to get rid of the Frenchman and got very angry, shouting "Death to Buffon".

 

The atmosphere got very heated and so dangerous that I feared a riot.

 

That, fortunately, did not materialise, but Italy were booed when they collected the trophy after their win - the first time the world champions have been treated in this fashion.

 

Contrast the dismissal of Zidane with Mark Cueto's disallowed try on Saturday.

 

The giant screens in the Stade de France endlessly replayed the moment Cueto crossed the line.

 

Around me, full and frank discussions took place between non-segregated English and South Africans, but I did not hear anyone question the referee's parentage, let alone threaten him.

 

Rugby is mature enough to tell its fans what is happening on the field of play. Football, alas, is not.

 

Indeed, this lack of maturity is not only accepted by football officials but given as the reason why football cannot have rugby-style video replays.

 

Graham Poll today explained why, in his view, replays would not work in football.

 

"While in rugby the decision was treated with respect, can you imagine the chaos in football?" asked the former referee.

 

And can you imagine an England footballer ever reacting like Martin Corry did?

 

When asked if the try was legal or not, the England forward responded: "It's not on the scoreboard, so it wasn't a try."

 

But then rugby players also seem to know more about their sport and its history.

 

I had a vivid illustration of this the day before the final when I interviewed Martin Johnson, England's 2003 World Cup-winning captain.

 

As we talked, he gave me a piece of rugby history I was not aware of.

 

"Do you know," he asked, "why a try is called a try? The name came about because it meant that when you had touched the ball down you could then try and score a goal - there were no points for tries then."

 

Can you imagine an English football captain imparting such nuggets of football history?

 

But much as we might praise rugby, the game should realise that it will never overtake football in popularity.

 

Although this was billed as the World Cup, the world that rugby reaches out to is still very small.

 

Yes, this tournament saw minnows like Argentina announce themselves as major powers, but this is still essentially a game played by white men.

 

Of the 30 players who started the game for England and South Africa, only four were non-whites.

 

Large parts of the world, the continent of Asia for instance, have still to be claimed by rugby.

 

The rugby authorities may yet come to regret that their next World Cup is not in Japan but New Zealand, which has no need for rugby missionaries.

[Tosh]

FWIW, I thought what Corry said in that interview spoke volumes about the way the tournament was played and the way players treat the officials

 

As for Bose....

[Mike]

makes great speakers

[Rimbeux]

I think calling it in some kind of class issue is wrong, equally simplistic and verging on insulting.

 

Tennis, middle class dominated sport, country club culture, brattish behaviour from many of the players

 

Rugby League, working class sport, top respect on and off the pitch.

 

I played football and rugby as a kid, sat rugby, sun football, with many of the same lads, and the difference in how we reacted to the oppo and authority was stark (even though we were far from the worst), what would never be tolerated in Rugby was almost expected in Football, and we conformed to both. It goes deep into the culture of each sport and spreads to the fans.

 

I was trying to find a way to explain it to a friend on the weekend, and I told her that rugby seems to bring people together in the game whereas football tends to divide them tribally.

 

 

What seems to me to be apparant, is that football's authorities have been on a mission to take out the edgier aspects from football, making it an easier package to market and manage, and along with some moralists in the press would like the same togetherness of rugby, so will constantly work to attack and remove the unruly and divisive elements from football.

[L19red]

if you want a steady diet of childproof flavourless mush then tune in to the rugby. Personally I like an atmosphere with a bit of needle.

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

comparing football fans to rugby fans??

 

Next - no violence at tennis shocker!

[floyd]

Mihir Bose, author of two Man Utd books. That, too me, makes him a cvnt.

That and the fact that he's a s*** journo who, some how got the job at the Beeb. Don't think his journalist skills were the over riding precedent.

Edited October 22, 2007 by floyd

[RP]

if you want a steady diet of childproof flavourless mush then tune in to the rugby. Personally I like an atmosphere with a bit of needle.

 

 

Pretty ignorant that, fella.

 

There are loads of rugby fixtures with plenty of 'needle'.

[StevieC]

if you want a steady diet of childproof flavourless mush then tune in to the rugby. Personally I like an atmosphere with a bit of needle.

 

Get down to Kingsholme for Glousceter v Bristol or Bath- all the atmosphere you appear to like.

 

Back to the original thread- where does he make the class statement or was that just an assumption made by someone based on the fact he differentiated between different sets of sport supporters?

 

Something of an ignorant, almost Matty-esque assumption if that's the case. It's got f*ck all to do with class and everything to do with the code of the game flowing through to the support. As another poster said, Rugby League and its supposed 'working class' following suffers none of this bullschit either.

[L19red]

funnily enough I formed my opinion having been dragged to a Gloucester game. If thats the best they have to offer then thanks, you've just validated my half-baked opinion of rugby crowds.

[StevieC]

funnily enough I formed my opinion having been dragged to a Gloucester game. If thats the best they have to offer then thanks, you've just validated my half-baked opinion of rugby crowds.

 

They'll be gutted. It's just what's needed is heroes there for the 'needle'

[Knox_Harrington]

none of this bullschit either.

What bullschit?

[RP]

funnily enough I formed my opinion having been dragged to a Gloucester game. If thats the best they have to offer then thanks, you've just validated my half-baked opinion of rugby crowds.

 

 

A bit like going to Liverpool v Fulham and saying the atmosphere at footy is sh**.

[Maldini]

These people who discovered rugby three years ago piss me off. They all seem to think that footballers should model their behaviour on rugby players, does that include all the stamps, off the ball punches and eye gouges?

 

...as for their off the field behaviour...

Edited October 22, 2007 by Maldini

[muleskinner]

I've seen a fair bit of crowd trouble at RL games over the years.

[StevieC]

What bullschit?

 

 

What do you think?

[Knox_Harrington]

What do you think?

I don't know. That's why I asked. I think for the most part Bose is talking a load of s***e. That Martin Johnson bit is f***ing ridiculous as an example of his point, for instance.

 

Think there's a difference between young British players at the highest level and their European counterparts - Xabi given the sword etc - just as football is a different beast culturally on the continent and that'd be a much more interesting piece than this one dimensional cliched bulls***.

[John am Rhein]

I was trying to find a way to explain it to a friend on the weekend, and I told her that rugby seems to bring people together in the game whereas football tends to divide them tribally.

 

Or more likely, football appeals more to those more inclined to be divided tribally.

[The Hitman]

Something of an ignorant, almost Matty-esque assumption if that's the case. It's got f*ck all to do with class and everything to do with the code of the game flowing through to the support. As another poster said, Rugby League and its supposed 'working class' following suffers none of this bullschit either.

I know what you're saying,but see the pitch invasions at Hull earlier this season and the stick Cooke has received throughout the season.

[matty]

funnily enough I formed my opinion having been dragged to a Gloucester game. If thats the best they have to offer then thanks, you've just validated my half-baked opinion of rugby crowds.

 

Whatever you do, don't bring facts into this.

[matty]

Get down to Kingsholme for Glousceter v Bristol or Bath- all the atmosphere you appear to like.

 

Back to the original thread- where does he make the class statement or was that just an assumption made by someone based on the fact he differentiated between different sets of sport supporters?

 

Something of an ignorant, almost Matty-esque assumption if that's the case. It's got f*ck all to do with class and everything to do with the code of the game flowing through to the support. As another poster said, Rugby League and its supposed 'working class' following suffers none of this bullschit either.

Stevie C, pictured yesterday, you can almost see his shoulder.

Edited October 23, 2007 by matty

[StevieC]

I don't know. That's why I asked. I think for the most part Bose is talking a load of s***e. That Martin Johnson bit is f***ing ridiculous as an example of his point, for instance.

 

Think there's a difference between young British players at the highest level and their European counterparts - Xabi given the sword etc - just as football is a different beast culturally on the continent and that'd be a much more interesting piece than this one dimensional cliched bulls***.

 

Sorry- trite response after a long day.

 

Bullschit I was referring to (thinking specifically about international games abroad) is you rarely get the trouble associated with football supporters aborad with other games- regardless of the supposed class of the following.

 

I know trouble related to football is frequently overblown and overhyped but you only have to compare England supporters (France 98) and what happened last week to see the difference. The article is simplistic and full of cliches and doesnt really ask the real question- why does football attract these d*ckheads?

 

Matty- I think any jibe would be more barbed if it wasn't being directed from someone who was born matchpoint down on the aesthetic front and still looks like the result of an attempted abortion that just made it- full marks for fighting back though sunshine, you're still f*cking special. P.S. only joking.

[L19red]

can we get back to abusing that sanctimonious prick Mihir Bose? So much more fun.

[Falconhoof]

Nobody gets called a c*** at the golf.

[Stevie H]

can we get back to abusing that sanctimonious prick Mihir Bose? So much more fun.

he's shocking. an appalling journalist who you can't help but feel has only watched football for a couple of years and doesn't really get it. he's got the clout of the bbc badge to open doors for him however.