'The economy is safe with the Tories'

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

1 minute ago, Ripley said:

I would agree but you used five specific words to support your argument, three of which do not seem to appear anywhere in the interview and two of which are a part descriptor and a part of a statement of the bleeding obvious.

I didn’t say each of those words was there, I said the suggestion of those tropes was there.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

 

And again, I’m not saying Peake is antisemitic and I’m not saying her facts were wrong (I’m not saying they were right either, I’ve seen no evidence either way about these seminars). I am saying that Long Bailey should have seen how it could look to people who fear the antisemitism of the left.

[muleskinner]

19 minutes ago, Kvarme Ate My Food said:

 

And again, I’m not saying Peake is antisemitic and I’m not saying her facts were wrong (I’m not saying they were right either, I’ve seen no evidence either way about these seminars). I am saying that Long Bailey should have seen how it could look to people who fear the antisemitism of the left.

Surprised this needs explaining. 

[DecidedByPoll]

1 hour ago, Sion said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1276184073048862720

 

Can't wait for him to bring the party together! So forensic. 

But this isn’t a Labour left and right argument, despite a determination to turn it into such. It’s a shadow cabinet minister making a serious misjudgement.

 

[Bailo]

https://twitter.com/leninology/status/1276183395983392768?s=20

[Cobs]

1 minute ago, DecidedByPoll said:

But this isn’t a Labour left and right argument, despite a determination to turn it into such. It’s a shadow cabinet minister making a serious misjudgement.

 

I think the split is there for all to see even in microcosm on this thread 

but Starmer said he was going to sort out the ‘labour being a party of antisemitism’ which dogged it under JC - if he’d not sacked her he’d be accused of being the same as before, not true to his word etc - and that would be the story in the Tory press tomorrow.

It’s RLB who has f***ed up here - and it was an easy one to avoid - and left him with a decision to make.

At least he’s been decisive.

 

i would expect him to follow up and go hard for Johnson’s support of his mates corruption now though

[Redwire]

5 minutes ago, DecidedByPoll said:

But this isn’t a Labour left and right argument, despite a determination to turn it into such. It’s a shadow cabinet minister making a serious misjudgement.

 

Haha, of course it isn't.

Rachel Reeves can post a hagiography of a nazi supporting rabid antisemite without a murmur of criticism from the LOTO but hey.

[smithdown]

1 hour ago, Kvarme Ate My Food said:

Yes ok, I see that and yes it is important, and I accept I was thinking of the effect on Jewish people and on the Labour Party, and not on Palestinian people. 

It’s the centrism at work.  I have no idea if Starmer has ever uttered a word about Palestine, genuinely don’t know, but we both know he will adopt the same position as the Tories before a ball is kicked.  There’s only one that anyone is allowed to have - feigned ambivalence merging into tacit support for anything Israel does.

[Redray]

3 hours ago, muleskinner said:

Did RLB read the full piece or just get a bit carried away with the anti tory bit? Seems very naive if she thought it wouldn't get jumped on.

Yeah shows very poor judgement. What a time to take the focus off the Tories by peddling conspiracy theories. Way to go RLB. 

[Ripley]

18 minutes ago, muleskinner said:

Surprised this needs explaining. 

What needs explaining is "Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has sacked Rebecca Long-Bailey for sharing an article containing an "anti-Semitic conspiracy theory".

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

Just now, Ripley said:

What needs explaining is "Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has sacked Rebecca Long-Bailey for sharing an article containing an "anti-Semitic conspiracy theory".

It doesn’t contain a conspiracy theory, you’re right.

[Bailo]

What f***ing conspiracy theory?! It's a f***ing fact! 

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

1 minute ago, Bailo said:

What f***ing conspiracy theory?! It's a f***ing fact! 

Genuine question: is it a fact that Israeli secret services taught those techniques to US cops? Where’s the evidence?

[smithdown]

Palestinian charities and accompanying activism has been decimated by this ongoing campaign, and the chance of any prominent left of centre MP taking a position other than the accepted one in future, maybe for a generation, has disappeared.

[kop205]

I don't doubt that the Israeli police enjoy standing on peoples necks.

I think there is a possibility that the particular officer stood on George Floyd's neck cos he had been trained to do that by the Israeli police.

I also think there is the possibility he is just the kind of fella who stands on people's necks.

Unless you know that it is defo the former then it is at best really stupid to bring Israel into it. At worst it is going out of your way to shoehorn in criticism of Israel when in reality there is plenty that you don't need to go out of your way to criticise, which for me (someone who has always been clear that criticism of Israel is not implicitly antisemitic and has almost always rejected attempts to conflate the two) is when you can't really be that surprised that people think you might be being antisemitic.

At best her tweet was the equivalent of Lovrens performance at Goodison.

 

[Gilps]

3 minutes ago, Kvarme Ate My Food said:

Genuine question: is it a fact that Israeli secret services taught those techniques to US cops? Where’s the evidence?

There is no evidence of that specific accusation, which is why the Independent amended its copy. They’d initially used the Amnesty USA report as evidence to back up the point, but it doesn’t back up the specific accusation that was made by Peake.

[Gilps]

3 minutes ago, kop205 said:

I don't doubt that the Israeli police enjoy standing on peoples necks.

I think there is a possibility that the particular officer stood on George Floyd's neck cos he had been trained to do that by the Israeli police.

I also think there is the possibility he is just the kind of fella who stands on people's necks.

Unless you know that it is defo the former then it is at best really stupid to bring Israel into it. At worst it is going out of your way to shoehorn in criticism of Israel when in reality there is plenty that you don't need to go out of your way to criticise, which for me (someone who has always been clear that criticism of Israel is not implicitly antisemitic and has almost always rejected attempts to conflate the two) is when you can't really be that surprised that people think you might be being antisemitic.

At best her tweet was the equivalent of Lovrens performance at Goodison.

 

And it comes at a time when actual antisemites peddling theories that the Jews are responsible stoking a race war in America. 

[muleskinner]

14 minutes ago, Ripley said:

What needs explaining is "Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has sacked Rebecca Long-Bailey for sharing an article containing an "anti-Semitic conspiracy theory".

She's dragged the story back to Labour=antisemitism. They write themselves with the British media. Open goal for the tories and takes the heat off again.

 

[Redray]

15 minutes ago, Bailo said:

What f***ing conspiracy theory?! It's a f***ing fact! 

It's the very definition of a conspiracy theory.  A secret plan to do something harmful.

You do understand conspiracy theories can be true right? 

[Bailo]

9 minutes ago, Redray said:

It's the very definition of a conspiracy theory.  A secret plan to do something harmful.

You do understand conspiracy theories can be true right? 

What's secret about it? Both police forces have been very open about training together.

The neck kneel - OK, I'll concede there is no evidence to say this was taught. But we're now so far removed from RLB it's ridiculous 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Bailo

[DecidedByPoll]

26 minutes ago, Bailo said:

What f***ing conspiracy theory?! It's a f***ing fact! 

Such a fact that Peake has retracted the suggestion on Twitter.

 

[Bailo]

23 minutes ago, Kvarme Ate My Food said:

Genuine question: is it a fact that Israeli secret services taught those techniques to US cops? Where’s the evidence?

Shared strategies and trained together - fact (see earlier post from amnesty report) 

Taught this specific technique - no evidence, unclear if either she or RLB were being told that amnesty said they had as the Indy have amended to article to revise that claim.

[D.Boon]

21 minutes ago, kop205 said:

I don't doubt that the Israeli police enjoy standing on peoples necks.

I think there is a possibility that the particular officer stood on George Floyd's neck cos he had been trained to do that by the Israeli police.

I also think there is the possibility he is just the kind of fella who stands on people's necks.

Unless you know that it is defo the former then it is at best really stupid to bring Israel into it. At worst it is going out of your way to shoehorn in criticism of Israel when in reality there is plenty that you don't need to go out of your way to criticise, which for me (someone who has always been clear that criticism of Israel is not implicitly antisemitic and has almost always rejected attempts to conflate the two) is when you can't really be that surprised that people think you might be being antisemitic.

At best her tweet was the equivalent of Lovrens performance at Goodison.

 

Exactly right. Absolutely moronic. 

[Bailo]

Just now, DecidedByPoll said:

Such a fact that Peake has retracted the suggestion on Twitter.

 

Clever. The retraction is about the neck kneel not the training together. This is why the Indy amended the article.

f*** it, I honestly don't give a s*** what most of you think about this. It's genuinely horrendously damaging for my mental health to see decent people line up against decent people and yet not take up arms about the insane bunch of ideologues who benefit from this. I'm done.

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

2 minutes ago, Bailo said:

Shared strategies and trained together - fact (see earlier post from amnesty report) 

Taught this specific technique - no evidence, unclear if either she or RLB were being told that amnesty said they had as the Indy have amended to article to revise that claim.

Sorry mate but this is important, it’s not just a detail.