31st July - Current mood?

[rjlfc]

Have been sat thinking about the last few weeks and the weeks ahead and I have very mixed feelings, even a large sense of foreboding or being brought crashing back down to earth. How to others feel at this poing in Pre-season?

 

A week or two ago, most notably following the Joe Cole signing and Gerrards commitment, it was like a breath of fresh air, and a much needed one, with regards to the optimism and 'positive' attention on the club. Roy was talking honestly and frankly (seemingly), the club seemed to be moving in the right direction with regards to transfers and it kicked off a feel good factor round the place. Roy talked about - I think his words were - 'a mini overhaul', needing to bring in more players of Joe's quality. Joe Cole was impressed with the clubs plans and who we were/are trying to bring in. Obviously, the cancer hanging over our club remains and that is still of greatest imprtance. But just for once I felt optimistic.

 

However, I don't know why, maybe its the pessimism that I've become used to around the club, but I have started to feel very cautious and a feeling that things may not go quite as well. Firstly, I know, I know, that we just don't know what will happen re. incoming/outgoing transfers and we have to wait until August 31st. But I've got a nagging feeling we may be dissappointed.

 

Roy has started to make references to players being shipped out without his knowledge. Even in a report in the Liverpool Echo today, King quote Roy re. Ngog -

"Nobody at the club has ever told me that we are looking to move him on and I certainly have never heard West Brom’s name mentioned,” said Hodgson.

 

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but quite a damning statement IMO. He has also come out and said we only need 1 or 2 more players? Now this I find incredible, and it smacks of a masive u-turn and an order from abovr to dampen expectation with supporters.

 

We need, not want, NEED, 2 left back. Unfortunately, we seem to be shopping in the bargain basement, with the likes of Luke Young and Konchesky repeatedly linked. Figueroa would be ok, nothing more. We are desperate for another striker to either play up top with Torres, or be an adequate 2nd choice. Given Ngog is not that player, this won't come cheap. . If anyone suggests we shouldn't worry as we have Stevie, Dirk, Babel or Ngog to fill in for Torres, they can f**k off. Didn't work last season and won't this. Theres 3 players we defintely need. Although not needed as desperately, I think we also need a pacy wide player and a centre back. Only Babel has any real pace out wide and there are question marks over the ability/pace over some of our centre backs. Oh, and theres the obvious need to get someone in in place of Mascherano, although it looks as though we are prepared to spend some of this money.

 

So, although theres very much a long way to go, I have a sneaky suspicion we will yet again end up with a transfer window where will will have been forced to make a profit and still won't have filled the positions where we need real quality. We are so far approx. 6-7 million in profit (at least) including Inusa sale and thats even assuming Benayoun's money went to pay off Rafa. Add to that approx. £23m for Masch gives us £30m. Now we have supposedly got £12-15m to spend without sales, so you would have thought we would still have well over £40 to spend. Does any really, honestly, think we will spend anywhere near that?

 

Very long winded I know, but in summary I'm starting to feel very reticent again. Would love to be proved wrong, but given who's in charge of buying/selling, I just think we'll be left wondering what if again....

[Flight]

Have been sat thinking about the last few weeks and the weeks ahead and I have very mixed feelings, even a large sense of foreboding or being brought crashing back down to earth. How to others feel at this poing in Pre-season?

 

A week or two ago, most notably following the Joe Cole signing and Gerrards commitment, it was like a breath of fresh air, and a much needed one, with regards to the optimism and 'positive' attention on the club. Roy was talking honestly and frankly (seemingly), the club seemed to be moving in the right direction with regards to transfers and it kicked off a feel good factor round the place. Roy talked about - I think his words were - 'a mini overhaul', needing to bring in more players of Joe's quality. Joe Cole was impressed with the clubs plans and who we were/are trying to bring in. Obviously, the cancer hanging over our club remains and that is still of greatest imprtance. But just for once I felt optimistic.

 

However, I don't know why, maybe its the pessimism that I've become used to around the club, but I have started to feel very cautious and a feeling that things may not go quite as well. Firstly, I know, I know, that we just don't know what will happen re. incoming/outgoing transfers and we have to wait until August 31st. But I've got a nagging feeling we may be dissappointed.

 

 

This isn't aimed at you, so please don't take it peronally. It's aimed at me as much as anyone else.

 

 

The vast majority of our fans are only looking at the short term. By that I mean - i) the present transfer window, ii) the upcoming season. All of that is transient and shouldn't be commanding our attention. But, most of us are entrenched in narrow mindedly arguing our corner on all sorts of relatively trivial issues (is Hodgson good enough, is Lucas good enough, have people got over Rafa).

 

 

Meanwhile,the cancers are still at the club. While they are, small pieces of news, good or bad, are irrelevant. The club IS dieing.

 

We are all, almost without exception, sitting idely by, clinging to the hope that RBS are pulling the rug from under them. You know RBS - the bank that has taken £120mill out of the club in the last three years for facilitating our debt.

 

 

 

 

Beyond that even what appears obvious to some is contentious to others. So the club we all love is dieing while we idely argue about who is and isn't good enough to be there.

[Molby]

the above is all correct

 

and yet what's on my mind this morning is Pacheco

 

I'm thinking that Masch plus Insua plus Riera plus Pacheco all sold, probably = the RBS interest paid for a year, with the majority of fans thinking "that wasn't too bad, we kept Torres and Gerrard"

 

when in reality if we sell all that lot and don't get anyone else in we are dicing with finishing outside the top 4, with all that entails for next summer

[Falconhoof]

we are selling pacheco ?

Not that fussed about the other 3, particularly if we get a midfielder of the quality of defour to replace Mascherano.

 

As a general answer I am looking forward to the season. I think we'll fare much better, reclaiming our champions league place and getting to a cup final while i'd expect the club to be sold before the end of the season, bringing the chance to rebuild properly.

[Gunga Din]

cant wait for the season to start. I think we will do ok, and i think we will get back into the top 4.

 

yes, i'm looking at this very short term, but thats because i am hopeful that by this time next year we will have new owners

[Swipe]

The signing of Cole and Gerrard staying has/had me feeling quite optimistic. Torres joining suit would just add to that.

 

I have become worried in the last few weeks though. So many gaps in the team/squad need addressing, with only two weeks before the start of the season.

 

Also a bit concerned at some of the players we've been linked too, although I know many of these links are fabricated by the media.

[CarraLegend]

Current mood is s***. We have no left backs, well are on the verge of having no left backs. Havent got any striker cover if Jova is gonna be used out wide. We're going to have gone from Alonso/Mascherano to neither in the space of 12 months. I've got massive concerns about the new manager. Despite all the sales we're still getting reports like the one in the Echo today that Roy basically cant afford Figueroa. We're still in an astonishing amount of debt and I dont care what anyone says - there is still no sign at all of them going anywhere.

 

Its the least excited ive ever been about a new season. And I guess for Man City fans its the complete opposite. If Hodgson can get 4th he deserves a knighthood because I'll be astonished if we get it.

 

Cole and Jovanovic are nice signings mind.

[Metro]

Current mood is s***. We have no left backs, well are on the verge of having no left backs. Havent got any striker cover if Jova is gonna be used out wide. We're going to have gone from Alonso/Mascherano to neither in the space of 12 months. I've got massive concerns about the new manager. Despite all the sales we're still getting reports like the one in the Echo today that Roy basically cant afford Figueroa. We're still in an astonishing amount of debt and I dont care what anyone says - there is still no sign at all of them going anywhere.

 

Its the least excited ive ever been about a new season. And I guess for Man City fans its the complete opposite. If Hodgson can get 4th he deserves a knighthood because I'll be astonished if we get it.

 

Cole and Jovanovic are nice signings mind.

 

I don't believe all the press hype. They are never right in their opinions. Cole and Jovanovic look good signings on paper but let's wait a couple of months before going over the top, shall we? I've asked this question before - when did the last freebie we got turn out to be a success - Voronin, Degen? As for left back, I can see us putting Agger there for a while if someone doesn't get his skates on.

[Alonso]

Current mood is s***. We have no left backs, well are on the verge of having no left backs. Havent got any striker cover if Jova is gonna be used out wide. We're going to have gone from Alonso/Mascherano to neither in the space of 12 months. I've got massive concerns about the new manager. Despite all the sales we're still getting reports like the one in the Echo today that Roy basically cant afford Figueroa. We're still in an astonishing amount of debt and I dont care what anyone says - there is still no sign at all of them going anywhere.

 

Its the least excited ive ever been about a new season. And I guess for Man City fans its the complete opposite. If Hodgson can get 4th he deserves a knighthood because I'll be astonished if we get it.

 

Cole and Jovanovic are nice signings mind.

Pretty much spot on and we haven't actually progressed the squad at all from last season, in fact we've regressed with the probable depature of Mascherano.

 

Agree that Cole and Jovanovic are good signings but they're replacements for Benayoun and Riera so haven't actually built or imporved the squad. The same goes for WIlson replacing San Jose and Shelvey replacing Plessis (presuming he's off altho he does look a far better player).

[Epic Swindle]

I don't believe all the press hype. They are never right in their opinions. Cole and Jovanovic look good signings on paper but let's wait a couple of months before going over the top, shall we? I've asked this question before - when did the last freebie we got turn out to be a success - Voronin, Degen?

 

Mcallister. Babbel.

[Sion]

Current mood is s***. We have no left backs, well are on the verge of having no left backs. Havent got any striker cover if Jova is gonna be used out wide. We're going to have gone from Alonso/Mascherano to neither in the space of 12 months. I've got massive concerns about the new manager. Despite all the sales we're still getting reports like the one in the Echo today that Roy basically cant afford Figueroa. We're still in an astonishing amount of debt and I dont care what anyone says - there is still no sign at all of them going anywhere.

 

Its the least excited ive ever been about a new season. And I guess for Man City fans its the complete opposite. If Hodgson can get 4th he deserves a knighthood because I'll be astonished if we get it.

 

Cole and Jovanovic are nice signings mind.

 

This is it.

Unless we somehow pull 4 quality signings out the bag before September 1st I'd be shocked to see us finish top 4.

City have, or will have, Knox's magic 22 key quality players. We have about 15

[Guy_Incognito]

I don't believe all the press hype. They are never right in their opinions. Cole and Jovanovic look good signings on paper but let's wait a couple of months before going over the top, shall we? I've asked this question before - when did the last freebie we got turn out to be a success - Voronin, Degen? As for left back, I can see us putting Agger there for a while if someone doesn't get his skates on.

 

 

Mcallister. Babbel.

 

Maxi? You've asked before and been answered before.

 

I'm currently peaking and crouching between massive optimism and utter doom and gloom. Much like the actual season I suppose

[Red]

I'm optimistic. If everyone stays fit, I think Hodgson will provide enough motivation to see us doing a lot better. Would be nice if we had a left back mind.

[Benzo-13]

Need left backs, a forward and to sort out the Mascherano situation.

 

Can't get too worked up as we're utterly handicapped by our disgraceful idiotic owners.

[stressederic]

I think we're going to need a bigger boat

[Guest PaulMcC]

I'm worried about everything at the club.

[mally]

i can spell dying

[Frosty Jack]

 

I'm thinking that Masch plus Insua plus Riera plus Pacheco all sold, probably = the RBS interest paid for a year, with the majority of fans thinking "that wasn't too bad, we kept Torres and Gerrard"

 

 

http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=4902254146

[Zoob]

I think that generally fans are pretty much divided along the same lines as they were regarding wanting Rafa out or not. Those who are glad we have a new manager are far more optimistic than those who wanted Rafa to stay. Yet, I don't think the pessimism stems solely from the fact that Rafa is no longer here, it stems from the fact that despite a new manager, our squad at the moment doesn't actually look any stronger than it was a year ago, and in terms of quality and quantity of players is arguably weaker.

 

And I find it very depressing that we're being linked with players such as Young, and Konchesky, and some are saying how they're good options, when to be linked with such crap just shows how far we've fallen. And I'm still confused about why we've not spent any of the 20 million or so we've already generated from player sales. It's as if that money never existed...

 

It's all gone incredibly quiet on the takeover front, and I swing from being hopeful and optimistic that some great news will come out of the blue, and we'll have a new owner within a month, to worrying that it's all gone quiet because there's nothing happening, and we're making plans for the next season with no change at the club, and these fekers somehow holding on. And Flight is right when he talks about the apathy. Are we actually going to do anything, if in 1-2 months, nothing has actually changed? If anyone is serious about buying us, and turning us into a success on and off the pitch, it would greatly be to their advantage to do it in the next month - basically to have everything done and dusted within 2-3 weeks. Get all the off-field distraction over with before the league football starts, and while we can still sign players. It would almost make no sense (or be a sign that we haven't sold to the right people) if someone is willing to finalise a deal a couple months into the season. I think if it's not done in the next month, it won't be done in the next year. The clock is definitely ticking....

[rjlfc]

Hmm, really interesting replies. I thought that others would be in agreement but thought that many would slaughter me for a downbeat post after recent optimism around us. But basically, its seems most people have their feet on the ground and are realistic.

 

Yes the Cole signing was very good and Gerrard staying too, but after all the doom and gloom it was easy for many fans to cling onto that good news and suddenly think things were on the up. Talk of the Cole signing sending out a message, sign of things to come etc. In fact, we're still pretty much in dire straights. Follwoing on from recent transfer windows, we are still in the positive, selling many, acquiring only a few, and those either free or bargain basements. We have major holes in the team, not just squad. And as people say, to top it off, we've got two ******** in charge still, using our profits and player sales to pay off debts.

 

Until I see us spend all of Masch's money (even though we'll still be in the positive), it won't be a decent transfer window. And unitl those two blood-suckers go, theres no end to this......

[David Hodgson]

the above is all correct

 

and yet what's on my mind this morning is Pacheco

 

I'm thinking that Masch plus Insua plus Riera plus Pacheco all sold, probably = the RBS interest paid for a year, with the majority of fans thinking "that wasn't too bad, we kept Torres and Gerrard"

 

when in reality if we sell all that lot and don't get anyone else in we are dicing with finishing outside the top 4, with all that entails for next summer

 

'Dicing with' lid ? We finished 7th last term.

 

You said they'd asset strip us. They haven't and they won't .

 

If we start the season with a better squad than we did last season then we should have a good crack at the top 4. At this point in time we're close to that. I think we'll sell Mascherano and add a decent centre mid, a decent left back and a decent second striker. If that can be done without a positive net spend in dont care as long as the improvement is made.

 

Contrary to others, i feel that in football terms only the short term can be of interest because we have no idea where our club will be in a years time.

Edited July 31, 2010 by David Hodgson

[Zoob]

'Dicing with' lid ? We finished 7th last term.

 

You said they'd asset strip us. They haven't and they won't .

 

If we start the season with a better squad than we did last season then we should have a good crack at the top 4. At this point in time we're close to that. I think we'll sell Mascherano and add a decent centre mid, a decent left back and a decent second striker. If that can be done without a positive net spend in dont care as long as the improvement is made.

 

Contrary to others, i feel that in football terms only the short term can be of interest because we have no idea where our club will be in a years time.

 

So compared to last season, we've no longer got

 

Aurelio

Dossena

Voronin

Benayoun

Riera

(and almost certainly) Insua

 

and we have Cole, Jovanovic and Maxi ( two of whom have terrible recent injury records) as replacements. You assume we'll lose Mascherano, and replace him with 'someone decent' (but almost certainly not as good) yet at this point we're close to starting this season with a better squad than last ?

 

And before anyone thinks I rate Voronon, or wish he was still here - I don't he was utterly rubbish, but not as utterly rubbish as the likes of El Zhar, who we brought on in a European semi final because our squad was so weak.

 

 

Your final point doesn't make much sense. None of us are clairvoyant with regard to the future (football or otherwise) yet burying our head in the sand and looking at things only in the sort term because we have no idea of the future is a very odd way to view anything. So presumably if we're in the same state in a year's time, (same owners, profit in the transfer market...) you'll still only be interested in the short term, as you don't know where we will be a year after that?

[Knoxy]

Long term very worried and again we'll spend no cash due to the horrible american walking bullet targets..

 

Short term, think we'll do better than last year. Cole is a great coup and am now optimistic re Torres and Gerrard staying, the former being fit for most of the season being key. But worried about losing Masch without getting a decent replacement, worried about left back and worried about losing Pacehco for no good reason

[flash]

People keep saying that we may be 4 or 5 players to service debt, thats ludicrous. I'm pretty sure RBS & Wachovia extended the loan facility past July for 6 months on the condition that the club was sold. i also believe the offer to pay down the debt by 100m and retain the facility is no longer on the table.

 

So you don't slice 25-40 milling off the value to service debt. you just don't do it. I And any iterested parties will have stipulated that they are interested provided the assets they are bidding on remain of the same value. i.e: IF we sell a 10m rated player, we must buy a 10m rated player or the offer is withdrawn.

 

 

for example, you bid 200 on a fancy tea set at an auction, win it, and when you go to pick it up you find the seller has sold the saucers to someone else during the bidding process. it just doesn't happen. I know it's slightly more complex with a footy club, but the principle is the same.

 

 

As for feelings - I'm gutted at the owners still being here, feel their days are very numbered. In the mean time everyone who deals with football matters is making damn sure we compete in the top 4 again THIS SEASON which is why Hodgson ihas been brought in. We were effectively relegated from the elite last season with a quad that shoudl have challenged for honours on all fronts. Hodgson will hopefully instill a seige mentality that will prevent that happening again this season.

Edited July 31, 2010 by mrjunk

[Zoob]

People keep saying that we may be 4 or 5 players to service debt, thats ludicrous. I'm pretty sure RBS & Wachovia extended the loan facility past July for 6 months on the condition that the club was sold. i also believe the offer to pay down the debt by 100m and retain the facility is no longer on the table.

 

I don't see how a bank could stipulate "sell" rather than "give us our money back" - either by selling, or by getting finance from elsewhere.

 

So, I don't think that it would happen, but it is not inconceivable that the club sells players to enable them to lower the debt by 30-50 million, perhaps maneuvers some money around to lessen our bank debts while increasing debts to the holding company, and then re-finances with a longer term, and lower level of debt with a different financial institution, while telling fans that doing so was the only option since there were no bidders offering the complete package necessary to take the club forward.

 

N.B. Wachovia aren't involved any more. We paid them 4 million so that they no longer had to worry about our debt to them.