Shankly - hanging around

[downunder]

I have just watched the history DVD, and whilst I knew the stories of Shankly turning up at Melwood etc after he retired I didn't know how much he was still about.

 

In Paisley's first game, the '74 Charity Shield, he did a lap of honour (pre match) to say goodbye, and then he was on the bench with Paisley.

 

In '77 when the players had their celebratory tour of the city, he was part of that too, in one shot he is telling Keegan and Johnson off!

 

Do any of the older forumites (FYDS, Murph) remember how much he stayed in the public eye after he retired? I can't imagine any modern day manager letting his predecessor be involved.

[Conrad]

Do any of the older forumites (FYDS, Murph) remember how much he stayed in the public eye after he retired? I can't imagine any modern day manager letting his predecessor be involved.

 

I guess Benitez was ok with Houllier being in the dressing room at Istanbul?

[Murphman]

I have just watched the history DVD, and whilst I knew the stories of Shankly turning up at Melwood etc after he retired I didn't know how much he was still about.

 

In Paisley's first game, the '74 Charity Shield, he did a lap of honour (pre match) to say goodbye, and then he was on the bench with Paisley.

 

In '77 when the players had their celebratory tour of the city, he was part of that too, in one shot he is telling Keegan and Johnson off!

 

Do any of the older forumites (FYDS, Murph) remember how much he stayed in the public eye after he retired? I can't imagine any modern day manager letting his predecessor be involved.

 

 

As I recall he turned up for pre season and was quietly told he was no longer the boss, it's well documented he'd wished he hadn't resigned within weeks of doing so. He was very low profile after that and rumour has it was upset he was never offered a position within the club at board/executive level. I wasn't living in Liverpool though, perhaps he was more obvious than I recall but I'm pretty sure he drifted into the background.

 

By 1977 it was Paisley's team, whilst still widely adored he had little influence.

[Beardsley]

Diden't he even go watch Neverton 'cause he felt welcome there?

[downunder]

As I recall he turned up for pre season and was quietly told he was no longer the boss, it's well documented he'd wished he hadn't resigned within weeks of doing so. He was very low profile after that and rumour has it was upset he was never offered a position within the club at board/executive level. I wasn't living in Liverpool though, perhaps he was more obvious than I recall but I'm pretty sure he drifted into the background.

 

By 1977 it was Paisley's team, whilst still widely adored he had little influence.

 

I knew (having read)he regretted the decision, didn't he try and resign every year before as well?

 

Its actually a good DVD 3.5 hours, it ends on a high, talking about the new stadium which G&H are promising......

 

Th Souness hat trick v Sofia gets better every time I watch it!!

Edited October 14, 2009 by downunder

[Superjay]

This one?

Click

[downunder]

This one?

Click

 

Yep.

[fyds]

As I recall he turned up for pre season and was quietly told he was no longer the boss, it's well documented he'd wished he hadn't resigned within weeks of doing so. He was very low profile after that and rumour has it was upset he was never offered a position within the club at board/executive level. I wasn't living in Liverpool though, perhaps he was more obvious than I recall but I'm pretty sure he drifted into the background.

 

By 1977 it was Paisley's team, whilst still widely adored he had little influence.

That's pretty close. he was turning up to training at Melwood for a long time after he quit - some of the old players said as much as two years, with Bob and Joe not really minding much until some of the players actually came to see them saying 'we don't know who's really in charge' as Shanks would of course give his opinion to players. After that, Bob and Joe had the unenviable task of telling him he should no longer turn up on training days - but he could use the facilities and come over and help with the old A. B and C set ups as was, if he wanted. Shanks got ver pissy about it, but calmed down again and apologized to Bob and acknowledged he was the boss and he (Shanks) must have been getting in his way. He then did some scouting for Bob but the parting eventually came when he was invited to come to a final (may have been 77 or 78) but not with the team, but with the wives. That was the last straw when on top of that, as Murph says, the club didn't offer him some sort of seat on the board or an early ambassdorialriole such as Busby had at United.

 

After that, he would occasionally train with Everton, using their sauna and doctors and even more often with Tranmere, to whom he worked as an advisor - can't recall if the capacity was official. He kept in touch with 'his boys', Cally, Smithy, Emlyn, Yeats etc who kept him in touch with what was going on and also with Bob and Joe, but that was now a broken relationship for the most part. There;s no doubt he was a little bitter by the end, and not wholly without reason, but he was an absolutist 'for me or gainst me' kind of man who gave utter loyalty and expected it back. he would still snaffle tickets for fans whenever he could and maintained a good relationship with members of the ground staff.

 

It was a weird and unique situation.

[downunder]

That's pretty close. he was turning up to training at Melwood for a long time after he quit - some of the old players said as much as two years, with Bob and Joe not really minding much until some of the players actually came to see them saying 'we don't know who's really in charge' as Shanks would of course give his opinion to players. After that, Bob and Joe had the unenviable task of telling him he should no longer turn up on training days - but he could use the facilities and come over and help with the old A. B and C set ups as was, if he wanted. Shanks got ver pissy about it, but calmed down again and apologized to Bob and acknowledged he was the boss and he (Shanks) must have been getting in his way. He then did some scouting for Bob but the parting eventually came when he was invited to come to a final (may have been 77 or 78) but not with the team, but with the wives. That was the last straw when on top of that, as Murph says, the club didn't offer him some sort of seat on the board or an early ambassdorialriole such as Busby had at United.

 

After that, he would occasionally train with Everton, using their sauna and doctors and even more often with Tranmere, to whom he worked as an advisor - can't recall if the capacity was official. He kept in touch with 'his boys', Cally, Smithy, Emlyn, Yeats etc who kept him in touch with what was going on and also with Bob and Joe, but that was now a broken relationship for the most part. There;s no doubt he was a little bitter by the end, and not wholly without reason, but he was an absolutist 'for me or gainst me' kind of man who gave utter loyalty and expected it back. he would still snaffle tickets for fans whenever he could and maintained a good relationship with members of the ground staff.

 

It was a weird and unique situation.

 

You do have a good memory for an OAP, cheers mate.

[Snookie]

He then did some scouting for Bob but the parting eventually came when he was invited to come to a final (may have been 77 or 78) but not with the team, but with the wives. That was the last straw when on top of that, as Murph says, the club didn't offer him some sort of seat on the board or an early ambassdorialriole such as Busby had at United.

 

Think it must have been 77. John Peel tells a story about getting a flight back with the wives after the Rome final and seeing Bill Shankly struggling his bag as they were getting on the plane. He walked over and asked if he could carry his bag for him. Shankly just said 'thanks son' and it handed to him. Peel described it as one of the proudest and saddest moments of his life. Proud that he could do something for him and sad to see that he had become such a peripheral figure at the club they both adored.

 

The contrast with how he was treated at the 67 final couldn't be more stark. He was Stein's personal guest and apparently the first person on to the pitch to congratulate him after Celtic had won.

 

As an aside, and I know I have said it before, but there is still something extraordinary about three of the greatest figures in British football - Shankly, Busby and Stein - growing up in within a couple of miles each other. How they maintained such close personal relationships despite all being extraordinarily competitive stands in marked contrast to the childish ill-will of many of their successors.

[floyd]

As an aside, and I know I have said it before, but there is still something extraordinary about three of the greatest figures in British football - Shankly, Busby and Stein - growing up in within a couple of miles each other. How they maintained such close personal relationships despite all being extraordinarily competitive stands in marked contrast to the childish ill-will of many of their successors.

Hugh McIlvanney did this three-part programme in 1997.

Arena: Busby, Stein and Shankly the football men the price of glory

One of the best football documentaries ever, and highlighted the fact that they were all

born within a thirty mile radius of each other.

[Duncan Disorderly]

He was Stein's personal guest and apparently the first person on to the pitch to congratulate him after Celtic had won.

 

As an aside, and I know I have said it before, but there is still something extraordinary about three of the greatest figures in British football - Shankly, Busby and Stein - growing up in within a couple of miles each other. How they maintained such close personal relationships despite all being extraordinarily competitive stands in marked contrast to the childish ill-will of many of their successors.

"You're immortal now, Jock." were his very words after Celtic won the European Cup.

 

To be pedantic, they were from about a 30 mile radius of each other growing up, but yer right, such giants of British football from such a localised area. Hard men from hard up-bringings and all commited socialists, especially with Jock Stein being an ex-miner and, ironically and typically, a hero of Celtic who was also a Protestant. Glenbuck, Shankly's mining village, isn't there anymore, sadly.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Duncan Disorderly

[Flight]

I have just watched the history DVD, and whilst I knew the stories of Shankly turning up at Melwood etc after he retired I didn't know how much he was still about.

 

In Paisley's first game, the '74 Charity Shield, he did a lap of honour (pre match) to say goodbye, and then he was on the bench with Paisley.

 

In '77 when the players had their celebratory tour of the city, he was part of that too, in one shot he is telling Keegan and Johnson off!

 

Do any of the older forumites (FYDS, Murph) remember how much he stayed in the public eye after he retired? I can't imagine any modern day manager letting his predecessor be involved.

 

 

 

He carried on turning up regularly at training at Melwood and the players still called him boss. Ended up with the club asking him not to turn up. As an aside, pre-Shanks Melwood was a right s*** hole.

 

He used to live in Formby and would stop and chat to anyone about footie. After he retired he often used to sit in the paper shop that was just around the corner and chat with anyone who wanted to for hours.

 

 

Story is his missus knew when he got home if we had lost - he'd not say a single word, get down on his hands and knees and spend hours cleaning the cooker.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Flight

[Damian_de]

"You're immortal now, Jock." were his very words after Celtic won the European Cup.

Partly to do with the fact that they had beaten Inter, wasn't it? And therefore a very personal kind of revenge for Shanks.

[mick]

I guess Benitez was ok with Houllier being in the dressing room at Istanbul?

 

Was he though? I'm trying to remember where I read that Rafa (or somebody!) was p!ssed off that Houllier came into the dressing room. Could have been in Carra's book? I'm too lazy to go off and check at the mo

[Duncan Disorderly]

Partly to do with the fact that they had beaten Inter, wasn't it? And therefore a very personal kind of revenge for Shanks.

I think it was more to do with Shankly's sense of history in that Celtic were the first Scottish/British team to win the competition and, knowing the fanaticism of Celtic fans, he'd forever be a god in their hearts.

[Des]

Think it must have been 77. John Peel tells a story about getting a flight back with the wives after the Rome final and seeing Bill Shankly struggling his bag as they were getting on the plane.

 

It was the Paris final, so not long at all before he died.

[Ostrich Man]

Hugh McIlvanney did this three-part programme in 1997.

Arena: Busby, Stein and Shankly the football men the price of glory

One of the best football documentaries ever, and highlighted the fact that they were all

born within a thirty mile radius of each other.

still have it on video, though no longer have a video player.

 

THE best footy documentary ever.

[fyds]

It was the Paris final, so not long at all before he died.

Yes Des - it was too. Still takes the wind out of my sails thinking about that.

[Snookie]

still have it on video, though no longer have a video player.

 

THE best footy documentary ever.

 

If you want to get it transferred to DVD I may be able to help.

[Ostrich Man]

If you want to get it transferred to DVD I may be able to help.

aye...know your type...you just want the video!

[melia]

He used to live in Formby and would stop and chat to anyone about footie. After he retired he often used to sit in the paper shop that was just around the corner and chat with anyone who wanted to for hours.

 

Thought he lived in Sandforth Road, West Derby? The houses with Bellefield (Everton's training ground) at the back. It was just round the corner from our school and we used to shout out to (what we thought was) his house when we ran past during cross-country.

[Nerik]

Tommy Smith wrote in his book that he'd still go visit Shanks regularly and that Shanks once told him that he would tell him why he really quit Liverpool only for their discussion to be interrupted at that point. Shanks never brought up the subject again.

[Flight]

Thought he lived in Sandforth Road, West Derby? The houses with Bellefield (Everton's training ground) at the back. It was just round the corner from our school and we used to shout out to (what we thought was) his house when we ran past during cross-country.

 

Yeah you're right, of course. The story I recounted was told to me just a few days ago by an old bloke in Formby. I was just retelling it; when he said around the corner that was where he (the bloke who told me) was living at the time.

[Murphman]

Thought he lived in Sandforth Road, West Derby? The houses with Bellefield (Everton's training ground) at the back. It was just round the corner from our school and we used to shout out to (what we thought was) his house when we ran past during cross-country.

 

 

He did, hence the Bill Shankly Playing Fields.