Gerrard - Lampard MF pairing

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

12 games is not enough to make a statistical case, but that's all I can be arsed to look at - this qualifying group:

 

Gerrard and Lampard picked (in one of those games Lampard was subbed off on 84, Eng won)

 

P 6 W 3 D 2 L 1 F 11 A 3 Pts 11

 

Gerrard on his own

 

P 5 W 4 D 0 L 1 F 13 A 2 pts 12

 

Lampard on his own

 

P 1 W 0 D 0 L 1 F 0 A 2 Pts 0

 

 

They played together in 5 of the first 7 games with a record of 4-2-1. Then Fatty sat out 4 - 3 wins (Fatty came on after 79 in the last of those wins).

 

Here it is chronologically:

 

Andorra 5-0 G/L

Macedonia 1-0 G/L FL off 84

Macedonia 0-0 G/L

Cro 0-2 FL

Israel 0-0 G/L

Andorra 3-0 SG

Estonia 3-0 G/L

Israel 3-0 SG

Russia 3-0 SG

Estonia 3-0 SG

Russia 1-2 SG FL on 79

Cro 2-3 G/L

 

 

To summarise - Lampard's s***. Q.E.D.

[Florist Cinema Pond Goal]

The frustrating thing is he did the hard part. He made the decision to only include one of them despite both being fit. Can't begin to describe how stupid it was to go back on this and indulge both Gerrard and Lampard.

 

The media barracked him for not playing 4-5-1 against Russia as they did for not picking Carson ahead of Robinson (I remember seeing a Daily Mail <spit> article slating him for not selecting Carson). I can only think this influenced his decision to start with Lampard and Carson.

[Rimbeux]

He consistently refused to accept there was an issue, and insisted they played great together, citing results as back up. Seems straight out of some cod spin/psychology pamphlet regarding how to deal with an issue, deny it exists or has any power over you. Sums him up.

[SkippyjonJones]

simple isn't it - you either look at the results and admit that they don;t work together - or you actually manage them and the game to allow both of them to play. Mclaren didn't do either.

[Hassony]

simple isn't it - you either look at the results and admit that they don;t work together - or you actually manage them and the game to allow both of them to play. Mclaren didn't do either.

 

 

the problem yesterday was that Barry was there also, yet neither gerrard or lampard played forward enough to help crouch

[Rimbeux]

the problem yesterday was that Barry was there also, yet neither gerrard or lampard played forward enough to help crouch

 

 

 

It was a mess, nobody held, it was just mix and match

[Florist Cinema Pond Goal]

There were periods in the first half in which Gerrard played deeper than Barry.

[stressederic]

The central midfield yesterday was a mess.

 

The thing is when Gerrard is playing s*** (yesterday) he comes back for the ball, tries to play everything at 100mph and just wastes possession, or over hurries everything, to absolutely no point.

 

When Lampard is playing s*** (yesterday) he vanishes completely.

[psl]

Other than the penalty, I don't remember either Gerrard or Lampard having a shot at goal. Really unusual for those particular players and pretty scandalous in a formation which was supposed to lead to them supporting a lone striker.

 

Incidentally, and I know I'll be shouted down on this, but I do think Lampard deserves some credit for stepping up to take that penalty. The pressure on that penalty was huge and he has been booed by England fans for a few games in a row now. Took some nerve I reckon.

Edited November 22, 2007 by psl

[Flanders]

He's a glory boy, I actually hoped he would miss.

[stressederic]

Incidentally, and I know I'll be shouted down on this, but I do think Lampard deserves some credit for stepping up to take that penalty. The pressure on that penalty was huge and he has been booed by England fans for a few games in a row now. Took some nerve I reckon.

 

I'll agree with that actually.

 

f*** knows what the 'keeper was doing with it though. He was practically lying down before Lampard took it.

[fyds]

When Lampard plays in the middle, Gerrard automatically drops deeper - whether this is based on instructions or the probability that he doesn't trust Fw*** defensively, god knows. When it's just Barry and Gerrard, it seems Gerrad is up there as he implicitly trusts Barry to fill in behind him.

 

Gerrard can play right of centre, attacking centre, defensive centre. Lampard doesn't seem capable of doing any of these per se at international level.

[XXX]

He's a glory boy, I actually hoped he would miss.

[Michael]

 

[Rimbeux]

When Lampard plays in the middle, Gerrard automatically drops deeper - whether this is based on instructions or the probability that he doesn't trust Fw*** defensively, god knows. When it's just Barry and Gerrard, it seems Gerrad is up there as he implicitly trusts Barry to fill in behind him.

 

Gerrard can play right of centre, attacking centre, defensive centre. Lampard doesn't seem capable of doing any of these per se at international level.

 

 

I think Gerrard naturally defers to him, and lets him take the advanced positions, and Barry does likewise with Gerrard, not so much trust as doffing respect. I think he's played poorly with both of them to be honest

[Archangel]

The Lampard/Gerard debate is obsessional and disguises the real problem which is that neither has really a footballers brain. Gerrard might have but tends to switch it off under pressure and goes chasing the game like a demented dog with a bell attached to his b******s. He needs to forget the hype and the glory and concentrate on doing the simple things well. When you have his talent the rest will follow.

 

Statistics are interesting but only as a point of historical reference. I believe the two can play together as an effective partnership and there must be a manager out there who can find a way

Edited November 23, 2007 by Archangel

[_00_deathscar]

Am I the only one who reckons Frank Lampard is excellent (not quite Xabi, Xavi, Pirlo etc, but still very good nonetheless) at setting the pace of the game and just keeping things ticking on? Doesn't show it for England, mostly 'cos he just camps outside the penalty area for that lot, but for Chelsea I've often seen him drop deep to play the simple ball and then make his annoying runs up front, and he ends up scoring.

 

He's certainly far better than Steven "100 mph" Gerrard at it.

Edited November 24, 2007 by _00_deathscar

[John am Rhein]

Lampard was certainly a good player a few years ago. Haven't seen much of Chelsea recently, but in the games I did see (against us and Man U) he seemed to be nothing special. For England he's been a liability for quite a while.

[fyds]

I think Gerrard naturally defers to him, and lets him take the advanced positions, and Barry does likewise with Gerrard, not so much trust as doffing respect. I think he's played poorly with both of them to be honest

I don't think so - I think Sven and even McClaren could see Lampard has no defensive abilities to speak of, and when they (Fw*** and Gerrard) are on the pitch, the defensive end is given to Stevie, who then doesn't trust Frank to funnel back behind him should he go forward, ergo, he stays back. I disagree about Gerrard and Barry - those two together (without Fw***) looked like a pairing who could rely on each other and Gerrard was quick to get forward in those games.

[Rimbeux]

I don't think so - I think Sven and even McClaren could see Lampard has no defensive abilities to speak of, and when they (Fw*** and Gerrard) are on the pitch, the defensive end is given to Stevie, who then doesn't trust Frank to funnel back behind him should he go forward, ergo, he stays back. I disagree about Gerrard and Barry - those two together (without Fw***) looked like a pairing who could rely on each other and Gerrard was quick to get forward in those games.

 

 

Whenever I've heard them speak about the situation, they've both said the instructions are that when one goes the other drops and there are no other direct instructions, although on occasion, especially years back, it looked like there were clear definitions.

 

I think Lampard naturally plays 5 yards further up anyway, and is in the area when Gerrard would be on the edge of it. The confusion for Gerrard is that he's still got license to get forward and feels he needs to contribute there, resulting in an uneasy balance.

 

Given that Lampard is a bigger goal threat, and Gerrard is more mobile and has superior vision, the only way to balance it is to have Gerrard holding and Lampard attacking as an instruction. Seen it happen and work. The issue with that is that there is tremendous, if naive, pressure to get 'the best' out of both of them and have both their attacking talents flowing in tandem, and that Gerrard is 'wasted' as a holding player. Probably is a waste, and there are better at the role, so it is either or.

 

With Barry, it's a better balance because Barry naturally plays further back than Lampard and is in no rush to get forward, naturally defers the attacking to Gerrard. Not so much trust as balance, and playing it as it happens rather than over thinking it. That said, Gerrard still played poorly in those games with Barry, it was Barry holding it together with bright simple ego-less football.

[Rimbeux]

Am I the only one who reckons Frank Lampard is excellent (not quite Xabi, Xavi, Pirlo etc, but still very good nonetheless) at setting the pace of the game and just keeping things ticking on? Doesn't show it for England, mostly 'cos he just camps outside the penalty area for that lot, but for Chelsea I've often seen him drop deep to play the simple ball and then make his annoying runs up front, and he ends up scoring.

 

He's certainly far better than Steven "100 mph" Gerrard at it.

 

 

For Chelsea he's clearly excellent and you're right he does play a more selfish game for England. With Lampard there is an inner respect in him for what he can ad cant do, and he keeps it simple and ticking over in midfield, not trying anything overambitious, sticking rigidly to what he's good at. Gerrard has more ability and more in the locker, so will try more, not always successfully or consistently. It's like Gooch and Gower

[Swipe]

Lampard is the single most overrated player in world football.

 

Average.

[Coyler]

like a demented dog with a bell attached to his b******s.

WTF???

[John am Rhein]

Given that Lampard is a bigger goal threat, and Gerrard is more mobile and has superior vision, the only way to balance it is to have Gerrard holding and Lampard attacking as an instruction. Seen it happen and work. The issue with that is that there is tremendous, if naive, pressure to get 'the best' out of both of them and have both their attacking talents flowing in tandem, and that Gerrard is 'wasted' as a holding player. Probably is a waste, and there are better at the role, so it is either or.

 

Gerrard IS wasted as a holding player. The sensible options for England would be 1) don't play Lampard at all, 2) if Lampard takes the attacking midfield role, put Gerrard on the right