Paddy 66

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Thionk thats barmy and out of order, I don't agree with a lot Ant is saying but its unfair for him to be singled out in this manner.

Your posts don't make me happy, far from it, it just seems to me that you are overly ready to be hyper critical of Rafa and overly analyse what he does. Maybe, I am reading too much into what you are posting, if so I apologise. Dave, I agree we should all get on, even if just for the sake we support Liverpool and are blessed to do so, opinions shouldn't generate the anger or frustrations they do particularly, given the fact we all want the same thing. Plus I've found myself agreeing with Andy which is really disturbing.....

Read my previous posts if you are actually that interested. You try and make yourself out to be this font of all knowledge but I remember some of your posts from last season when we were drawing, having a pop and slating people who were in any way positive. You then seemed to convienently forget that in the 2nd half of the season. I think you like the sound of your own opinion but will never admit if you are wrong or mistaken.

I wouldn't want him near the club and think Rafa was right not to re-sign him. Why am i an unquestioning fool? Because I have an opposing view to you? If you had actually read my previous posts you would realise that I think Rafa has made mistakes this season, but I also happen to think he is absolutely the correct man for the job. In fact, given the progress we have made under him he deserves more respect than you and others are giving him.

Wouldn't want Owen near the club, the s***e!!!! Clearly a stick you will use to beat Rafa with, but then again what more can we expect from you.

Ha ha still missing the point Wayne...

Apart from the fact Torres is a proven premiership player and Aqualani isn't but apart from that big difference its exactly the same. Although I agree, I think we should have seen a bit more of Aqualani by now.

Even though he wanted to leave, it really isn't as simple as you are trying to make out. It was pretty clear he wanted to go to Real Madrid when they made an offer for him. So what you are saying is, you would have preferred us to have bought another striker and left us with Degen, Darby and possibly Kelly as cover for right back because Arbeloa wanted to go and that is what would have happened. But you are right, wasting money on a player who up to injury has arguably ben are best player. I'm sure if the owners had actually made more money available then Rafa would have gone looking for a striker, he has made mistakes but I think there needs to be a reality check on what Rafa was allowed to spend and it was obvious to everyone that he had to replace those who left, i.e. Alonso and Arbeloa and then try and add to the squad but he wasn't allowed to by the owners.

So who would have played Right back and you would have been happy if we hadn't bought a replacement for Alonso? Its not as simple as you and Kev make out.

I hope not and to be fair Capello is a better manager than Sven. Loads of hype no doubt if we play Germany, papers full of tiresome war type references etc etc.

The media coverage will have even more hysteria around it because of the way Capello got us to qualify, this will be used as a sign that england are sure to go on and win it. The way I look at it England stand a decent chance of progressing quite a way in the tournament and if they play as well as they can and have a bit of luck, could even win it. However, there will be a number of countries who feel the same way, Holland, Germany, Italy, Argentina, possibly France and Porugal as well. The two countries who I think could really justify feeling they have a good chance of winning are Spain and Brazil. Still this will be the first World Cup since France98, that I go in with a level of expectation of England doing well with a bit of a chance of winning it. Well maybe 2002, but I soon realised that Sven, while a manager who could get you to a World Cup, lacked the tactical nous to get through the knockout stages.

Oh come on, you seriously couldn't have missed the very obvious point which was being made.

Well as long as they agree with me . There can be a bit of a witch hunt which can be unfair although some don't herlp themselves sometimes.

Oh so saying people should save their cheerleading for the match not the internet forum, is advocating open debate? I dont think so...think about it.

Nobody is arguing that debate isn't a good thing ir that Ant or Kev have right to ask about the regime but people are allowed to express an opinion back, even one which is in support of our manager, a shocking thing to do I know. The issue that most people seem to have with the original post isn't the fact he questioned the length of the contract but the fact he is saying the manager is wrong for don't publicly slating or questioning the owners and that if he did it would force the owners out. I know Ant isn't naive enough to actually beleive that and knows the only outcome would be the sacking of Rafa, something he wants. Why not come out and say that rather than try and hide it in some spurious thread. Horribly arrogant statement from you, surely a debate should be open to all not just match going fans, or is it only if they support your opinion?

Anyone who thinks him speaking out would lead to the demise of the owners is being extremely naive, and I dont think you are that naive, but you do know it would lead to him getting the sack. Something you have already called for.

The only reason you want him to speak out, is not to expose the owners but because it means he would be sacked. But if he did speak out and got sacked you would then say it just showed how little he cared and it was mistimed so he had to go etc. You have a very clear agenda and unfortunately you keep pushing it, in a very unsubtle way. Its extremely tiresome.

I realised what it was about but I honestly don't think we will need to make that choice, the only time would be if we were still facing the injury crisis we are now. If we are then we probably wouldn't have a chance of qualifying for the CL anyway. So becomes a bit irrelevant really.

Why does one have to be mutually exclusive of the other? Whats saying we can't go and win the Europa cup and still qualify for the CL? Things should be a lot clearer in Feb when the cup starts again, hopefully we will be clear of the injury crisis and hit some decent form. If thats the case then try to win it, the FA cup and qualify for the CL. I always think if you are in a competition try and win it, because if you get a bit of momentum going why risk losing it by resting players and unsettling the side?

The more I think about it, it becomes apparent it would need to be done once the 2nd half had started say 5-10 minutes in, so the vast majority are back in. If you have several hundred walking out at once then it makes a very visual statement, it would need to be very well organised and advertised in advance. Leafleting outside the ground etc especially the Kop because that would have to be the focus of a walkout, I would also suggest the walkout is only for 10-15 minutes. If done in conjunction with flag waving and chanting it would make a better statement. I hope I'm wrong but I fear as I've stated it will at best getting a passing mention, sometimes you have to be prepared to upset a few people to get the point across.

I don't think Molby or anyone is trying to be "political" but believe that action with a bigger impact would be better. The media will probably, at best give a passing mention to the flags and chanting but if there had been some form of walkout/boycott it would be far more dramatic and have a bigger impact. Only constant pressure and highlighting of how unhappy the fans are will have any effect, I dont think the softly softly approach you favour is going to work anymore and the time as come for more direct action, in fact its well overdue. Or do you prefer action that might not upset our fans from abroad, even if it has no affect on our owners, as posts suggests?

I think thats a bit defeatist and still think a bit of chanting and flag waving isn't going to have the desired affect. I hope I am wrong but I think it has to be a bit more visible to get the necessary press coverage, if you have a pre-planned protest then hopefully a well prepared press release would have gone out.

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If its only seen by Liverpool fans then its not going to work, as the whole point is to get as much publicity as possible, to try and put some pressure on the owners through bad publicity, also to try and make the banks a bit concerned about refinancing again next year. To be honest I'm not sure a few banners and chanting is going to get the required publicity, think some form of walk out, non return after half time would have been more effective.