Paddy 66

Nobody is arguing that debate isn't a good thing ir that Ant or Kev have right to ask about the regime but people are allowed to express an opinion back, even one which is in support of our manager, a shocking thing to do I know. The issue that most people seem to have with the original post isn't the fact he questioned the length of the contract but the fact he is saying the manager is wrong for don't publicly slating or questioning the owners and that if he did it would force the owners out. I know Ant isn't naive enough to actually beleive that and knows the only outcome would be the sacking of Rafa, something he wants. Why not come out and say that rather than try and hide it in some spurious thread. Horribly arrogant statement from you, surely a debate should be open to all not just match going fans, or is it only if they support your opinion?

Anyone who thinks him speaking out would lead to the demise of the owners is being extremely naive, and I dont think you are that naive, but you do know it would lead to him getting the sack. Something you have already called for.

The only reason you want him to speak out, is not to expose the owners but because it means he would be sacked. But if he did speak out and got sacked you would then say it just showed how little he cared and it was mistimed so he had to go etc. You have a very clear agenda and unfortunately you keep pushing it, in a very unsubtle way. Its extremely tiresome.

I realised what it was about but I honestly don't think we will need to make that choice, the only time would be if we were still facing the injury crisis we are now. If we are then we probably wouldn't have a chance of qualifying for the CL anyway. So becomes a bit irrelevant really.

Why does one have to be mutually exclusive of the other? Whats saying we can't go and win the Europa cup and still qualify for the CL? Things should be a lot clearer in Feb when the cup starts again, hopefully we will be clear of the injury crisis and hit some decent form. If thats the case then try to win it, the FA cup and qualify for the CL. I always think if you are in a competition try and win it, because if you get a bit of momentum going why risk losing it by resting players and unsettling the side?

The more I think about it, it becomes apparent it would need to be done once the 2nd half had started say 5-10 minutes in, so the vast majority are back in. If you have several hundred walking out at once then it makes a very visual statement, it would need to be very well organised and advertised in advance. Leafleting outside the ground etc especially the Kop because that would have to be the focus of a walkout, I would also suggest the walkout is only for 10-15 minutes. If done in conjunction with flag waving and chanting it would make a better statement. I hope I'm wrong but I fear as I've stated it will at best getting a passing mention, sometimes you have to be prepared to upset a few people to get the point across.

I don't think Molby or anyone is trying to be "political" but believe that action with a bigger impact would be better. The media will probably, at best give a passing mention to the flags and chanting but if there had been some form of walkout/boycott it would be far more dramatic and have a bigger impact. Only constant pressure and highlighting of how unhappy the fans are will have any effect, I dont think the softly softly approach you favour is going to work anymore and the time as come for more direct action, in fact its well overdue. Or do you prefer action that might not upset our fans from abroad, even if it has no affect on our owners, as posts suggests?

I think thats a bit defeatist and still think a bit of chanting and flag waving isn't going to have the desired affect. I hope I am wrong but I think it has to be a bit more visible to get the necessary press coverage, if you have a pre-planned protest then hopefully a well prepared press release would have gone out.

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If its only seen by Liverpool fans then its not going to work, as the whole point is to get as much publicity as possible, to try and put some pressure on the owners through bad publicity, also to try and make the banks a bit concerned about refinancing again next year. To be honest I'm not sure a few banners and chanting is going to get the required publicity, think some form of walk out, non return after half time would have been more effective.

They are a joke, its not as if the goal had been disallowed, it would have meant Ireland went through. The scores would still have been level and there was no guarantee they would have won the match anyway. FIFA should tell them to get lost and the FAI should stop the whinging,

Would you rather we tried to have played a more attractive style of play and lost? Just enjoy the win.

Reina Masch Kuyt

I think you are wrong, as its a harsh judgement on morons.

You would hope so but they would still have the final say and I believe it would still be a budget driven one rather than a pure footballing one, they should stick with Rafa.

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Apparently more than you, or are you happy to leave the choice of who takes over from Rafa to them?

Thats probably more do with the fact he plays in centre midfield and apart from the Sunderland game, there have only been a couple of other games when Masch and Lucas haven't been avaialble in the league and Champs lge. I would like to see him getting more time on the pitch, and once Aquilani has got match fitness and hopefully we will have returned to a run of form we can start to give him a few more minutes on the pitch. I would agree putting him in the starting line up because of his place of birth isn't a good enough argument but then again I think if he gets a more time playing for the first team, he may well develop into a good squad player for us.

You would like it to be the reason Rafa hasn't been sacked, but I simply don't believe that. It is more likely be they see more in Rafa than you and understand this is his first truly bad spell and that there have been underlying reasons behind our recent form.

No you're not because I wouldn't write him off yet and think there is still a chance he could become a useful squad player for us.

I hope he doesn't start, those dirty b***sh**e b**t***s would target him and try and do him. I'd rather see him come on later once the game has slowed down a tad.

I'm glad I only read that this morning, if I'd read it last night I would have been having nightmares. Jeez with those two in charge they aint the type of dreams I'd want to be having

I think the best protest would be, half time everyone leaves the stands and doesn't comeback for the first ten minutes of the 2nd half, then anti G+H songs. If the media are told there will be a protest against the owners during the match, then they can't take it as an anti Rafa protest, think SOS could use their media contacts. Personally think its a cracking idea Wayne and one well supporting, which ever form it takes. For those saying well it might affect the players, yes it might but not as much as the current owners who aren't backing them by allowing the squad to be improved but hey you can enjoy the game, then moan about the owners without actually being prepared or commtited enough to do anything about it.

If the worat happened and Rafa was ditched I think we would end up with someone like Klinnsman, Curbishley etc, we really wont get a manager who is good enough for this club. We saw a glimpse of the type of manager they are after when they approached Klinsman.

So bascially, what you are saying is that because he has regularly posted stuff you disagree with, its ok for him to be given the level of personal abuse he has got. Thats ridiculous, if you don't like what he has written or the threads he has started don't read them or reply in a way to try and persuade him that he is wrong. It makes a mockery of the forum and turns it into an over censored one, if you get sheds load of abuse just because you post something that you and others disagree with. I disagree with the thought of getting rid off Rafa and agree the owners need to be the main source of anger and protest but each to their own.