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so are Rafa and Houlliers eras becoming ever so similar....

floyd the barber

By floyd the barber
in Liverpool FC

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floyd the barber

floyd the barber

Posted
Posted (edited)

was gonna post this in that "other" thread..but it got locked!

 

I think its vital as to how important the "right hand man" is.....

 

anyway

 

 

It's a fair enough topic for discussion - we're absolutely f***ing abysmal, replacing managers sometimes leads to improvements in performance.

 

Definitely a no, though. I think I was one of the first Houllier-outers, but the two situations are completely different. Rafa needs a break, not a stab in the back from our own fans.

 

dont think they are that different to be honest...

 

houllier peaked with the treble......then we finish 2nd

Patrick bergues left after the season of the treble....then some poor signings were made...and houllier never recovered.

 

rafa peaked with the champs league win......followed that with an excellent fa cup win..

his vital right hand man left..Pako(apprently over a dissagrement regaridng the signing of ryan Babel,)...we finish 2nd the season after......,.....

 

and now the season after.....matches houlliers, we look a tactical mess

Edited by Lets get Masched
carrafan

carrafan

Posted
Posted

The other thread shouldnt have been locked. Kev'll simply start another one as he's entitled to and the mods shouldnt worry about a particular footballing thread not according to the tastes. There's absolutely no way that there isnt going to be another 'rafa out' thready by the end of the season, one could have simply made sure that all posts should have gone into that thread, a bit like the Transfer Rumours one. Just throwing my opinion into the mix anyway.

 

With regards to Rafa and Houllier, there are quite a few similarities. We were leaking a lot of goals towards the end of Evans' era and Houllier rightly believed that the basis of every good team is a strong defence. The same for goes for Rafa. The difference here lies in the fact that Rafa actually managed to transform us from a rigid team who were strong defensively to one which scored a fair amount of goals while remaining strong defensively, unlike Gerard.

 

We virtually won nothing in the 90's and Gerard got us winning actual trophies. Rafa took it a step further.

 

 

I'm not sure how important their assistants were to them but i imagine that every manager needs a trustworthy one. Bascombe said that Rafa and Pako fell out after Pako had a dinner with Mourinho which was unacceptable to Rafa, which it was. Now it depends on what you want to believe, some believe that it was because Rafa doesnt like people who disagree with him and sacked Pako because he didnt want us to sign Babel, some believe that the reason was that Pako met with Mourinho, while some believe that there must be some truth to both facts.

 

My opinion on their similarities are two fold. I think both are very good managers who absolutely love the club, the people and the city of Liverpool and took us in the right direction from our previous managers. Gerard brought Liverpool on the map by winning the treble and then another cup after a terrible 90's and Rafa's taken us from there to someone to be feared in Europe. We've almost always been there and thereabouts atleast when it comes to Europe and have made a dent in the league as well, by finish above Arsenal for 3 of the last 4 seasons, finishing above an infinitely funded Chelsea last year and almost pipping United to the post.

 

Houllier couldnt get us make the step up by winning the league and whether Rafa can is open to interpretation. Both opinions are valid, imo as we basically threw away the league after being in a very strong position last year. What i only expect from Liverpool fans is for Rafa to be shown respect as he's a good man and a great manager whose getting none from the media. Its something that he deserves and i have a lot of time for both him and Gerard.

 

Coming back to the topic about their right hand men... yes i expect a manager losing a trusted partner to be affected by it. Pako had been with Rafa from his time at Tenerife i think, but like every good manager, Rafa overcame it by getting us to play the season we last did. I dont think its a huge problem now.

dorgie

dorgie

Posted
Posted (edited)

Houllier's post-match blabberings towards the end of his reign showed he had lost control. Rafa still oozes control post-match. I think Rafa will bring us through this, but he will need a bit of luck over the next couple of months. It is not at all unrealistic that we could be up to 3rd or 4th by mid-January.

Edited by dorgie
Andy @ Allerton

Andy @ Allerton

Posted
Posted
Houllier's post-match blabberings towards the end of his reign showed he had lost control. Rafa still oozes control post-match. I think Rafa will bring us through this, but he will need a bit of luck over the next couple of months. It is not at all unrealistic that we could be up to 3rd or 4th by mid-January.

 

Indeed. We're only 5 points off 4th place at the moment with a lot of the season left to play.

 

You'd assume that once we've got a much less injured squad we'll do a bit better and history agrees with that.

Andy @ Allerton

Andy @ Allerton

Posted
Posted
So yet again 4th place is an achievement and something to aim for.

 

I was brought up on first is everything, second is nothing.

 

Rafa can't be held responsible for the years before he came to the club.

 

Houllier started changing things for the better, Benitez is continuing that.

 

In the 90s we were seriously f***ed. Not great now with the owners, but again you can't blame the manager for them.

 

Though I'm sure you will.

Murphman

Murphman

Posted
Posted (edited)
So yet again 4th place is an achievement and something to aim for.

 

I was brought up on first is everything, second is nothing.

 

 

When I was brought up it wasn't so good, we had seven consecutive seasons being 'nothing', not a f*cking pot in sight. Played some sh*t football at times and back in those days there was no mega rich Oligarchs and Oli Sheiks running clubs as toys, there was no excuse, money wasn't an issue.

 

How that f*cking Shankly survived I have no idea, he took us from being champions of England to 'nothings', luckily for him YNWA gdidn't exist or he'd have been out!. This Benitez fella, the one who took us to three European Cup semi finals? He only won two, what a c*nt, he simply has to go.

 

Who shall we get Kev? Who's going to come in?

Edited by Murphman
Toni

Toni

Posted
Posted

Assistant managers are truly fundamental... Look at Slur, without Brian Kidd, Mc Laren, Queiroz. The mancs are now finally fighting vs relegation.

 

Rafa must stay. We are running through a very bad patch and i m sure we ll turn it around.

 

Stick with the man, feckers!

Andy @ Allerton

Andy @ Allerton

Posted
Posted
When I was brought up it wasn't so good, we had seven consecutive seasons being 'nothing', not a f*cking pot in sight. Played some sh*t football at times and back in those days there was no mega rich Oligarchs and Oli Sheiks running clubs as toys, there was no excuse, money wasn't an issue.

 

How that f*cking Shankly survived I have no idea, he took us from being champions of England to 'nothings', luckily for him YNWA gdidn't exist or he'd have been out!. This Benitez fella, the one who took us to three European Cup semi finals? He only won two, what a c*nt, he simply has to go.

 

Who shall we get Kev? Who's going to come in?

 

 

And that's a good point. There is no way on Earth those whining now would ever have 'put up' with Shanks.

 

Just like there was 'no way' the Manc fans were ever going to 'put up' with Alex Ferguson. If they had got their way and binned him.. I doubt we would have regained top spot - too much mismanagement and the crapness of the 90s with Souness and Evans guaranteed we were going to get nowhere.

drdooom

drdooom

Posted
Posted
Houllier couldnt get us make the step up by winning the league and whether Rafa can is open to interpretation.

 

He can't unless the ownership debacle is fixed, but then noone else can either.

madaboutlfc

madaboutlfc

Posted
Posted
we got our best ever points total since winning the league without Pako

 

What a weird thread

exactly..

 

The problems we are encountering start from the board room level and would be solved from there..

fred milne

fred milne

Posted
Posted
It certainly stems from there, but it has developmed into a bit of a get out for others at the club.

Absolutely. The owners are a big issue but its too easy pin all the blame for our current situation down to them.

Gunga Din

Gunga Din

Posted
Posted
Absolutely. The owners are a big issue but its too easy pin all the blame for our current situation down to them.

 

issues like our entire left side costing costing over 25 million, and getting for that 3 of the biggest wastes of space ever to pull on Liverpool shirt?

Jarg Armani

Jarg Armani

Posted
Posted

Anyone saying the ownership is the only issue behind our current malaise is wrong.

 

It's just difficult to know how far the actions of the gang of d****eads behind the scenes transmits onto the 11 on the pitch playing like a gang of d****eads.

 

We still haven't got over the loss of Alonso. Almost all on pitch issues are covered by this imo, but even as i write that i'm thinking 'we would have been able to get over it quicker if we could afford to replace him properly'.

 

It's an over arching thing the ownership, it touches everything, dismissing it is even worse than talking about nothing else, but neither are particularly useful.

Stevie H

Stevie H

Posted
Posted
issues like our entire left side costing costing over 25 million, and getting for that 3 of the biggest wastes of space ever to pull on Liverpool shirt?

you including riera in that sum?

fred milne

fred milne

Posted
Posted
We still haven't got over the loss of Alonso. Almost all on pitch issues are covered by this imo.

That's my view too. Puts the Masch v Xabi debates from a years back into perspective.

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