Rafa isn't the one, is he?

[The walters step over]

Firstly, can I just point out that I'm generally not the negative type when it comes to LFC but I would like to think I was realistic and I think that if we're being honest with ourselves then we'd have to admit that Rafas footballing philosophy isn't compatable with winning the English league - Spain,obviously, Italy probably, but England - unfortunately not.

 

His 4-2-3-1 system has worked wonders for us in Europe against teams that many would regard as having better players than us because it is all about containing the opposition, neutralising as many threats as possible whilst taking any chances that come our way. This works against continental teams because they are used to playing a slower,passing game which gives our defenders time to re adjust their positions and gather their breathes after clearing danger.

 

In England where most of the teams play a direct back - to - front longish ball game our defenders (and the two defensive midfielders) are forced back towards our own goal much more often leading inevitably to them creating more possesion around our 18 yard box and therefore forcing our midfield to be split in two - last season we often had a large gap between Alonso and Masch and Gerrard,Babel and Torres so when we did regain posession on too many occasions we found counter attacks failing because we were also forced to go long in order to try and get Gerrard/Torres involved in the play. Including Kuyt when he often drops back to help out and work hard we can have as many as 7 defensively minded outfield players on the pitch, this surely is the reason that Torres only managed 2 goals away from home in the league we are far too negative in our approach.

 

In the last ten years the league has been dominated by 3 teams, two of which have the attitude of attacking the opposition whether they are at home or playing away, surely this should give Rafa hints about the way to be succesful in the league?Trying to grind out results worked for Chelsea because they had a fantastic defence shielded by Makelele in front and arguably the worlds best goalie behind, in those two years if they went ahead that was it, game over because at the other end they also had flair players like Duff, Robben and Cole - players of a much higher standard to the ones that we have or are linked to. Valencia were apparently the same sort of outfit in Spain - his "flair" players there were Aimar and Vicente - and I can understand him trying to replicate the system he had in Spain that brought him that success, but he should have learned by now that it won't work here. However, here we are bidding for more average, hard workers like Milner, Downing and now apparently Darren Bent (Jesus wept) and the brutal truth is they are nowhere near the quality needed to make it work as a "grinding" team.

 

The way has been shown very recently by the Mancs two years ago and Arsenal in their "invincible" year, in both seasons Chelsea had the strongest squad in the league and had there been injuries to Henry,Pires, Rooney or Ronaldo then they wouldn't have had the strength in depth to still go on and win the league. But Wenger and Ferguson both took that risk of creating a squad with a good amount of attacking quality players surrounded by squad members to fill the holes if needed and their gambles paid off in the end. Rafas idea seems to be to create a large squad with two for every position filled with players all of a similar standard so that if we do have injuries then the level of the team won't suffer too much. But if the players are much of a muchness then we aren't going to be anywhere near the title for yet another year.

 

I'm not calling for Rafas head, just that he takes more risks this year, is that too much to ask?

[honourablegeorge]

We haven;t won the league because we haven't had good enough players, simple as. Until that changed, we ont' regardless of who's in charge. Torres was a giant step in the rgith direction, but we need more like him.

[Walrus]

Rafa is the one and more. He has won us a European Cup already and will bring home the premiership trophy as well.

[Guest Prongsy]

4-2-3-1 was only used in the league at the end of the season. We didn't lose a game in the league after that switch (even our reserves against Arsenal away).

 

The 4-2-3-1 can be very attacking.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Prongsy

[Gomez]

So basically, Rafa is sh*t because is isn't trying to sign players we can't afford to buy?

[Will]

I think that if we're being honest with ourselves then we'd have to admit that Rafas footballing philosophy isn't compatable with winning the English league

Anyone who can write that doesn't deserve to have the rest of their essay read. So I didn't.

[Guest Scouse Kiss]

The time to decide if Rafa is 'the one' is when we are competing on an equal footing with the Mancs and Chelsea.

 

Torres was the first multi-miilion pound player we have ever bought; unlike the Mancs and Chelsea who can throw money around like confetti.

 

Last season we could rely on Torres and Gerrard to influence and to win games for us. The Mancs and Chelsea had three / four players who could change a game. Next season we can expect Babel to have more influence than last season and, hopefully, we will sign another two quality players, too.

 

So, like I said, let's compete equally before we judge Rafa's managerial competences.

[Ronnie Whelan]

Anyone who can write that doesn't deserve to have the rest of their essay read. So I didn't.

 

 

The second sentence, impressive.

[muleskinner]

Can't this wait until September when all the other doom mongers come out?

[hideNseek]

It would certainly be easier for Rafa to win the league if he was given a contract extension and then he could plan his campaigns with less pressure.

[Skillz]

It would certainly be easier for Rafa to win the league if he was given a contract extension and then he could plan his campaigns with less pressure.

Exactly. I will be very disappointed if Rafa isn't given an extension this summer. If he doesn't, all those words of support from the owners mean SFA.

[Flasher]

As someone has pointed out, when we switched to 4-2-3-1 in the league we were brilliant and didn't lose. Therefore your point is weak from the start.

[Cobs]

As someone has pointed out, when we switched to 4-2-3-1 in the league we were brilliant and didn't lose.

 

apart from v Man U where we bottled it again

[fabfive]

It's also taken 4 years for Rafa to cull the squad and get players in capable of operating in a 4-2-3-1 formation.

 

As he gets the players he needs to tweak the formation and have adequate squad members as reserves we will go from strength to strength.

 

Rafa IS the one.

[Bogman]

People forget we only lost 4 games last season, which I believe was actually better than the Mancs.

We also had one/if not the best defencive records in the league.

We had one of the best goal scoring seasons we've had in many a year.

We had the best goal scoring return from one of our strikers in decades.

Pepe won the golden glove for the most clean sheets, for the third consecutive season.

We finished nearer the league winners (points wise) than we have for years.

 

AND all that with Riise playing.

[Caramba]

People forget we only lost 4 games last season, which I believe was actually better than the Mancs.

We also had one/if not the best defencive records in the league.

We had one of the best goal scoring seasons we've had in many a year.

We had the best goal scoring return from one of our strikers in decades.

Pepe won the golden glove for the most clean sheets, for the third consecutive season.

We finished nearer the league winners (points wise) than we have for years.

 

AND all that with Riise playing.

 

...and yet, we were out of the title challenge by December.

[SkippyjonJones]

There are two areas from last season that we need to improve. First is the results against the top 3 teams – we gave away point there all the time. We have to go toe to toe with them points wise. It not only improves our points total but decreases theirs – narrowing the gap quicker.

 

Secondly our home form at the start of the season was terrible. Our away form was a huge improvement from the season before and maintaining should be the standard we look towards. At home we draw 5 games where we were in the lead – that’s 10 points we gave away there. That has to be addressed and was in part by the signing of Skrtel in January. Having Agger back will also assist. I don’t see us being that far off in improving just based on the above.

 

 

 

Rafa isn’t the man? Get a grip..

[johngibo YPC]

apart from v Man U where we bottled it again

 

I was going to point that out. But i understand why people have ejected it from their memory!

The point stands though. in that the original post implies we have been playing 4-2-3-1 since Rafa got here

[Kuyt-fever]

Can't this wait until September when all the other doom mongers come out?

 

 

They'll all be out after the first game. " We only won 2-0 , the mancs would have won 5" they'll cry. We've got Villa away early too so its an opportunity for them to come out in force.

[Earl Hafler]

We haven;t won the league because we haven't had good enough players, simple as. Until that changed, we ont' regardless of who's in charge. Torres was a giant step in the rgith direction, but we need more like him.

 

 

If Rafa stops picking shyte like Kewell and Pennant over better players like Babel and Benayoun then maybe we will begin to improve and perform more consistently.

If he's learned from the mistakes of last season then he has a chance. Otherwise it'll be CL qualification and a cup run.

 

Plus, he has to motivate the players better before the big league matches - too often our players look like they'd rather be somewhere else.

 

And it wasn't just the switching from 4-4-2 to 4-2-3-1, it was the consistent selection of midfield and attack, a more settled side.

 

Shunning Crouch for Voronin, picking Kewell and Pennant too much, pissing around with the midfield all led to us dropping points, in my opinion.

[Guest Prongsy]

If Rafa stops picking shyte like Kewell and Pennant over better players like Babel and Benayoun then maybe we will begin to improve and perform more consistently.

 

Kewell 15 games

Pennant 25 games

 

Total 40 games

 

Banayoun 47 games

Babel 49 games

 

Total 96 games

 

 

Not much more to be said about that really.

[San Diego Red]

What is this f***ing obsession with "challenging" for the title.

You win it or you don't.

Either way, it doesn't f***ing matter if you're 3rd or 4th (except money wise).

 

Wake the f*** up.

[carrafan]

What is this f***ing obsession with "challenging" for the title.

You win it or you don't.

Either way, it doesn't f***ing matter if you're 3rd or 4th (except money wise).

 

Wake the f*** up.

 

 

How do you count short term progression quantitatively, then?

Comparing with the team who won it as a base seems a good idea to see how worse we were as compared to them in the season.

 

 

Means nothing long term though as people forget.

[Earl Hafler]

Kewell 15 games

Pennant 25 games

Banayoun 47 games

Babel 49 games

 

 

Pennant made 14 league starts, Babel and Benayoun made 15.

 

Stats on their own prove f*** all, Prongsy.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Big Stuff

[Guest Prongsy]

Pennant made 14 league starts, Babel and Benayoun made 15.

 

What the f*** are you going on about. Even the amount of starts (like games from the bench don't count in your world or something) prove your point wrong.

 

Pennant - 18 + 7

Kewell - 9 + 6

 

Yossi - 26 + 21

Babel 29 + 20

 

To be honest, it's because of Benayoun level players starting that much that we're not closer to the title. We need better players coming in, that's hardly Rafa's fault (although I'm sure you'll find some way to bash him over that)

Edited June 19, 2008 by Prongsy