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Coaches at the Acadamy

johngibo YPC

By johngibo YPC
in Liverpool FC

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goodrobotusses

goodrobotusses

Posted
Posted

Wow. Drastic, if true. The only thing I'd heard about the academy teams this season was from something on another website (TLW?) that one of the teams had been underperforming all season and it was alleged to be a side-affect of teething problems with the new academy set-up (Piet Hamburg, et al).

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Guest PaulMcC

Guest PaulMcC

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This is teh response i got from Dave:

 

Haven't heard, but it wouldn't surprise me. Piet Hamburg is running the show, and he'll need coaches to do it the way he wants to. If the current coaches don't see things the way he does, then I guess he'll have to bring in people who do. Or he'll have to be replaced, and I don't see that happening.

 

Something has to give, because the Academy is a complete mess at the moment.

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Cam

Cam

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The coaches must have been doing something right to win back-to-back FA Youth Cups - many of the players used being brought through by then.

 

Who's left of that 'Under 14s Dream Team' we were meant to have?

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Rimbeux

Rimbeux

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The coaches must have been doing something right to win back-to-back FA Youth Cups - many of the players used being brought through by then.

 

Who's left of that 'Under 14s Dream Team' we were meant to have?

 

I know it may appear to be honky dory on the surface, ie winning the youth cup, however the real purpose is to prepare players for the first team and failing that, a good career in professional football. Winning some stuff on the way up as a group or a team wont necessarily prove any sort of guide to the quality or development of the individuals, could even be argued that chasing wins above all else can encourage a very short term attitude to development and actually hold back players.

 

Not saying that's what is going on, I've got no depth of knowledge on our set up, but it's not out of the question, and the questions have to be asked when nobody is coming through the academy and few if any are even making premiership players.

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FC Showster

FC Showster

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Posted
The coaches must have been doing something right to win back-to-back FA Youth Cups - many of the players used being brought through by then.

 

Who's left of that 'Under 14s Dream Team' we were meant to have?

 

The coaches may be producing excellent teams but are they producing players who are individually talented enough for the 1st team?

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muleskinner

muleskinner

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Someone I know says he has had several talks for a coaching job at the Acadamy but he didn't want to work with youngsters. According to him he has had talks several months ago. As he is Dutch he won't be a stranger to Piet Hamberg.

 

Why bother having talks for an academy coaching role if you don't want to work with youngsters?

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MFletcher

MFletcher

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We produce a ridiculously low number of players capable of making the grade.

 

Fair enough, you can't expect to produce a Carragher, Gerrard, Owen or Fowler every year.

 

But the likes of Guthrie should be coming through. Good, solid Premier League players who could do a job for us, but will likely be sold for around £3M-£5M for funds.

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Maldini

Maldini

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The coaches must have been doing something right to win back-to-back FA Youth Cups - many of the players used being brought through by then.

 

Who's left of that 'Under 14s Dream Team' we were meant to have?

 

Spearing, Darby and Putterill.

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goodrobotusses

goodrobotusses

Posted
Posted (edited)
I know it may appear to be honky dory on the surface, ie winning the youth cup, however the real purpose is to prepare players for the first team and failing that, a good career in professional football. Winning some stuff on the way up as a group or a team wont necessarily prove any sort of guide to the quality or development of the individuals, could even be argued that chasing wins above all else can encourage a very short term attitude to development and actually hold back players.

 

Not saying that's what is going on, I've got no depth of knowledge on our set up, but it's not out of the question, and the questions have to be asked when nobody is coming through the academy and few if any are even making premiership players.

 

I'm inclined to agree. It's all based on hearsay and conjecture, but there have been too many rumours and stories about the academy and its supposed problems (Houllier/Heighway being one) over the years to not wonder what's been happening. IF, as suggested, there have been problems this year, and there has been conflict behind the scenes, it's not unreasonable to suggest a butting of heads between Hamburg and the established academy coaches in terms of approach may be at the centre of it.

 

Granted, this is maybe me going totally out on a limb here, but with Hamburg coming from a background at Ajax, where youth development is solely concentrated on individual player technical quality and creativity, and not necessarily about producing competitive youth teams (as we have had over the years), you're going to get a conflict of interest. We might have a situation where Hamburg is more interested in getting players to focus less on winning youth games and the whole English approach to youth football, and more on improving their skills. Whereas our dyed-in-the-wool academy coaches would want to continue producing winning teams, and not believing that shoe-horning young lads into rigid playing systems might be having any negative affect into their individual development and skills.

 

But yes, very out on a limb of me there.

Edited by hisdumbwaiter
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Maldini

Maldini

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In fairness to the coaches, they all say it's not about winning it's about producing players.

 

It might just be that we're opening our school for next season so we'll have more students full time and need more coaches, they might have just decided to get rid of everyone in a clean sweep.

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goodrobotusses

goodrobotusses

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It might just be that we're opening our school for next season so we'll have more students full time and need more coaches, they might have just decided to get rid of everyone in a clean sweep.

 

The school is definitely an exciting prospect. It would be amazing to have a Liverpool equivelent of La Masia. Here's hoping.

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magneto

magneto

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Ties in with Dave on TLW's Blog entry

 

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/blog/?p=158#more-158

 

Trouble with the kids

 

Two wins in eleven league games since the turn of the year. A disappointing return for Liverpool’s U18s side, but anyone who has watched the team recently will know that Liverpool can have no complaints about the results. The performances have been extremely poor.

 

I see several things as contributing factors to this alarming development. One is that the organisation at the academy seems to still be up in the air. For instance, at Wednesday’s game at Manchester City you had Hughie McAuley on the bench giving instructions while Piet Hamberg and his assistant were in the stands doing the same. And given the fact that they aren’t shouting the same instructions, who are the lads supposed to listen to? Where is the overall game plan? Is it just to work hard and show commitment? I honestly think the players aren’t sure.

 

Coaching staff at the academy may still have worries about whether or not they are going to be kept on for next season as the Dutchman gets to grip with life at the academy. And undoubtedly this affects training and the general mood around the players. Imagine your boss going round moping or worrying over losing his/her job. You’d pick up on it in no time and it has an immediate effect on the learning environment.

 

Players certainly look like they aren’t enjoying their football at the moment and morale seems at a low point as we head towards the end of the season. In games nobody shouts encouragement and there is no sign of team spirit in the side. Nobody plays with that smile on their faces or that spring in their step. You can tell when a player is enjoying himself, but nobody is. Actually, I tell a lie as Lauri Dalla Valle was the exception when he came on for his U18s debut in the game at City. He was the only one to crack a smile.

 

It’s almost like they would rather be somewhere else, but who would want their job to be anywhere else than on a football pitch? We’re dealing with young boys of 16 and 17 years of age. They are not machines, and they are not experienced professionals. They are kids and it is hard to blame them for letting outside influences affect them. When even Steven Gerrard admits that off the field problems had an effect on the first team earlier in the season, how can these kids be expected to be any different? Certainly, several of them seem to have been halted in their development.

 

Team spirit also seems to be extremely low and I don’t know if the players don’t like each other or whatever it is. Marvin Pourie, however, seems particularly unpopular as he is extremely single-minded on the pitch. Earlier in the season he had arguments with Michael Collins on the pitch, but a defining moment was when he grabbed the ball from Nathan Eccleston to take a penalty against Everton. His team mates looked like they were almost celebrating when he missed!

 

If he is allowed to play that way, it is only natural that some of the others will be the same with him. But shouldn’t that be dealt with by the coaching staff? If I can see this simply by watching the team every fortnight or so, surely they can as well?

 

On Wednesday, the team was passed off the park by an admittedly good City side who are in this year’s FA Youth Cup final. But considering that the academy has brought in players from Germany, Sweden, Denmark and from other clubs in the UK, probably at great expense, shouldn’t we be able to compete with them? And shouldn’t we expect to beat the Derby Counties, Stokes and Huddersfields?

 

Another contributing factor, I’m sure, is that none of the players know what is going to happen to them next season. Will they be moved to Melwood, where they already have far too many players (and loads more to come back from loan spells), or stay at the academy for another season? Or will they be getting their contracts paid up like Michael Collins? They don’t know.

 

It was obvious to anyone watching Wednesday’s game that tactically, Man City were by far the better team. They passed it crisply, they were patient, and they played it from one side to the other. And they looked for space between our midfield and defence. When they found it, they played the ball sensibly to players making dangerous runs. They created a string of good chances and should have won the game comfortably in the end.

 

In contrast, Liverpool’s attacks were a lesson in what not to do when in possession. And they have been in almost every game I have seen in the last few months.

 

Typically, one player will move forward with the ball until facing an opponent. He will then wait until there is no other option available to him than to pass it. However, at that point the player he is giving it to will have had to check his run or stop completely, so when he gets it, he is stood still. In other words, you lose any kind of fluidity in your play, and it makes going past players much more difficult.

 

And when you attack like that, it becomes relatively easy even for ordinary sides to defend against. All you need to do is be organised and put pressure on the player with the ball. And that’s what those aforementioned sides have been doing against us with such great success.

 

But if spectators can see this, I’m sure the staff can too. If not, it really is an alarming situation for the academy players.

 

Individually, we are talking about a talented group of players – not as good as some make out, however – and they can’t be blamed for everything because they can only respond to a situation. I’d like to see evidence that players are trying to stick to a more well-defined game plan and losing would be easier to take.

 

Move the ball around, play it earlier to each other, and work to find space. Use your individual skills to make each other look better. Be a team. If there is a game plan now, then I assume it’s not what the players are doing on the pitch. But then we must deal with that problem.

 

It really is that simple. If “amateur” spectators can spot this, staff can too.

 

For months they haven’t been playing as a team at all, and Hamberg, Owens, Elias and McAuley will have to spend some serious time getting to the root of it.

 

Is it just that this year’s group, socially, does not work well together as a unit? Or is there something fundamentally wrong with the organisation following Steve Heighway’s exit last summer. If it is the latter, then it really needs to be addressed in the summer one way or the other before we waste another year and lose out on other potential targets who will be unwilling to join an academy in turmoil.

 

The players look stressed, and they don’t seem to enjoy football at all. It really is strange because at this age they should be raring to go and raring to learn. Instead, it seems like a get-up-early-Monday-morning slog for them.

 

Last game of the season is a trip to Leeds this weekend and then I believe there is a trip to America on the horizon. But the boys will be desperate for a break from it all.

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Gerrardrules

Gerrardrules

Posted
Posted
Why bother having talks for an academy coaching role if you don't want to work with youngsters?

 

I know, overhere we know how good the person is at telling stories. Apparently he thought/hoped the interview would be about a coaching role for the reserves at least.

 

To make it even better, he claimed several weeks ago he had talkes with Everton. So probably bulls*** anyway.

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Cunny

Cunny

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Posted

more from Dave Usher on TLW

 

Heard tonight that five coaches have been binned, but I don't know any more than that or who they are, what age groups they coach etc

 

At the moment no changes to u16 and u18. Don't know if that will change or not though. Several scouts not having their contracts renewed either.
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