Benazir Bhutto killed in Pakistan

[Zoob]

Suicide bombing may be used in disputes over territory but, as I said, it is only in disputes over territory between religious factions that, in the majority of cases, suicide bombing is used.

 

Not really the case. Up until Iraq (and quite possibly even still now) the Tamil tigers had / have carried out more suicide bombings than any other group, and they are highly secular.

 

Where religious fanatacism comes in is that it can, and has been used to manipulate people into blowing themselves up, but this doesn;t mean that there is always a religious element.

 

Edit: oops - beaten to it by mr Wire...

Edited December 28, 2007 by Zoob

[Raj]

Part of me agrees with you, but the other part thinks that Musharraf will not be happy at this. There will be rumours in Pakistan that he was behind it, it could destablise him further and open the door for the fundamentalists.

 

He is a c*** and the reason why the Talban and Al Qaeda have flourished in the tribal areas on the Pakistan and Afgan border.

Anyone who is fooled by this prick, needs to open their eyes.

 

This is a f***ing disgrace and will have significant repurcussions within the region.

[Raj]

Her greed for power was her eventual downfall.

 

That comment is a f***ing disgrace.

[fyds]

As sad as the situation is, this isn't surprising at all. Her greed for power was her eventual downfall.

Firstly, Bhutto's position was pro-western, pro-democratic more than it was pro-US. She may have been many things, but a total idiot wasn't one of them. None of the corruption charges against her were proven and bore the smell of military concoction about them - she got it wrong on many levels, but corrupt - unproven and dubious given the dirty politics that surround Pakistan.

 

Her father and brothers had both been killed and she knew this was her likely fate eventually too, which would to me illustrate that rightly or wrongly, this was about doing what she felt was necessary rather than a 'simple greed for power'. Dead people don't tend to enjoy power much.

[Frosty Jack]

That comment is a f***ing disgrace.

 

agreed

[Crazy Horse]

Thirded. It depresses the hell out of me that we have c**** with attitudes like that supporting Liverpool.

[anfield]

Anyone thinking that Bhutto (or her cronies) were not corrupt during their time in power shows their lack of knowledge about regional politics. There are very very few politicians on the Indian subcontinent who are not linked to corruption in one way or another. Its endemic and its a fact of life. Most are simply never ever convicted because of the influence they wield.

[Frosty Jack]

"Corruption"; her husband taking some bribes to buy french planes and polish tractors. Shocking.

[New York Red]

"Corruption"; her husband taking some bribes to buy french planes and polish tractors. Shocking.

 

Disgraceful huh? What else? Surely there's more. I mean, there has to be a good reason for slaughtering her.

 

Right?

[fyds]

Anyone thinking that Bhutto (or her cronies) were not corrupt during their time in power shows their lack of knowledge about regional politics. There are very very few politicians on the Indian subcontinent who are not linked to corruption in one way or another. Its endemic and its a fact of life. Most are simply never ever convicted because of the influence they wield.

If you're talking about some of her family, cabinet, entourage or a.n. other taking backhanders for pushing through contracts then you're showing a lack of knowledge and understanding in regard to worldwide realpolitik. All politicians of all shades barring very few do or have done this, in just about every country everywhere at some point or other - Mark Thatcher and Cementation Ltd, Dennis Thatcher and De Beers, Cash for questions/honours - and that's just this country!

 

Your point about asian politics is taken though, it's just that the hard evidence suggests that Bhutto and her lot were no more corrupt than anyone else, and less than most.

[Hassony]

Thirded. It depresses the hell out of me that we have c**** with attitudes like that supporting Liverpool.

 

what a weird comment!

[DGMO]

That comment is a f***ing disgrace.

No, it's the truth. Live with it.

[Hassony]

. icious

 

No. I think they do it because they are a combination of desperate, gullible, stupid, and vicious.

 

exactly, its noting to do with how many virgins they expect in heaven, thats usually the first thing that c**** like littlejohn or Jon gaunt bring up

[DGMO]

Firstly, Bhutto's position was pro-western, pro-democratic more than it was pro-US. She may have been many things, but a total idiot wasn't one of them. None of the corruption charges against her were proven and bore the smell of military concoction about them - she got it wrong on many levels, but corrupt - unproven and dubious given the dirty politics that surround Pakistan.

 

Her father and brothers had both been killed and she knew this was her likely fate eventually too, which would to me illustrate that rightly or wrongly, this was about doing what she felt was necessary rather than a 'simple greed for power'. Dead people don't tend to enjoy power much.

As part of the 'deal' to allow her back into the country, Musharraf cleared all corruption charges against her. To suggest that the military concocted the charges shows little understanding of the situation. What about the charges that were brought against her by the civilian government in power? She was dismissed by the civilian president on charges of corruption, not once, but twice - not the military.

 

What about the corruption charges that were brougt against her by the Polish and Swiss governments, not the military?

 

With respect to her brother dying, she was in power at the time, and many to this day see her complicity in his murder given they were at each other throats.

 

She served the country twice, largely ineffectively, was mired in corruption, led Pakistan to the No.1 ranking in Transparency International's corruption index, oversaw the rise of the Taliban and stuffed her Swiss bank accounts along the way. She made her mother a member of her cabinet when in power, and if that wasn't enough the Deputy PM. Just for good measure, her corrupt husband 'Mr 10%' was made Minister for Investment in 1996 when holding no qualities whatsoever to hold such a post. The nepotism witnessed was frightening, but so was her determination to hold on to power at all costs.

[DGMO]

Thirded. It depresses the hell out of me that we have c**** with attitudes like that supporting Liverpool.

It depresses the hell out of me to know there are c**** with no understanding of the internal situation of Pakistan supporting Liverpool

[Hassony]

It depresses the hell out of me to know there are c**** with no understanding of the internal situation of Pakistan supporting Liverpool

 

If that was Thatcher instead of Bhutto you would have seen people celebrating here (and rightly so)

 

Bhutto (like 99.99% of the leaders in africa/ the middle east/ the sub contenet) was after more power and more money

[Romario]

Firstly, Bhutto's position was pro-western, pro-democratic more than it was pro-US. She may have been many things, but a total idiot wasn't one of them. None of the corruption charges against her were proven and bore the smell of military concoction about them - she got it wrong on many levels, but corrupt - unproven and dubious given the dirty politics that surround Pakistan.

 

Her father and brothers had both been killed and she knew this was her likely fate eventually too, which would to me illustrate that rightly or wrongly, this was about doing what she felt was necessary rather than a 'simple greed for power'. Dead people don't tend to enjoy power much.

Well put

[anfield]

If you're talking about some of her family, cabinet, entourage or a.n. other taking backhanders for pushing through contracts then you're showing a lack of knowledge and understanding in regard to worldwide realpolitik. All politicians of all shades barring very few do or have done this, in just about every country everywhere at some point or other - Mark Thatcher and Cementation Ltd, Dennis Thatcher and De Beers, Cash for questions/honours - and that's just this country!

 

Your point about asian politics is taken though, it's just that the hard evidence suggests that Bhutto and her lot were no more corrupt than anyone else, and less than most.

 

Of course one could never know for certain if she was personally involved but as DGMO put it, Pakistan has been labelled as one of the most corrupt nations on earth and that was before, during and after her tenure. The comparisons to Dennis and Mark Thatcher are wide off the mark. To suggest that Bhutto was completely ignorant and had no part in it makes you think she was incredibly stupid....which she certainly wasn't.

 

Not saying anyone deserved to die or be blown up but the revisionism in the wake of her death is quite interesting.

[Guest sniffer]

As part of the 'deal' to allow her back into the country, Musharraf cleared all corruption charges against her. To suggest that the military concocted the charges shows little understanding of the situation. What about the charges that were brought against her by the civilian government in power? She was dismissed by the civilian president on charges of corruption, not once, but twice - not the military.

 

What about the corruption charges that were brougt against her by the Polish and Swiss governments, not the military?

 

With respect to her brother dying, she was in power at the time, and many to this day see her complicity in his murder given they were at each other throats.

 

She served the country twice, largely ineffectively, was mired in corruption, led Pakistan to the No.1 ranking in Transparency International's corruption index, oversaw the rise of the Taliban and stuffed her Swiss bank accounts along the way. She made her mother a member of her cabinet when in power, and if that wasn't enough the Deputy PM. Just for good measure, her corrupt husband 'Mr 10%' was made Minister for Investment in 1996 when holding no qualities whatsoever to hold such a post. The nepotism witnessed was frightening, but so was her determination to hold on to power at all costs.

 

At last, someone who tells it as it was. I would add that the army have openly ruled Pakistan since independence and even in the short times of civilian rule, they have been the real force behind the government. I have been told that in recent years Bhutto have become increasingly arrogant and wouldn't listen to any advice. I think we should be very worried about events over there. The country is the capital of Islamist Jihadism and if they can't be stopped there, they can't be stopped period. There's been a tidal wave of volunteers etc flooding from the western part of Pakistan into Afghanistan. The money flows in, Al Qaeda is back there with a vengeance and if that wasn't enough, the country has the atom bomb. It's chief scientist is under house arrest for selling secrets to various people. Nothing appears to be totally reliable over there. Whether Musharraf can keep a lid on it is open to doubt, IMO. Scary.

[marvinbarcelona]

exactly, its noting to do with how many virgins they expect in heaven, thats usually the first thing that c**** like littlejohn or Jon gaunt bring up

 

The virgins thing was actually started by Darius of Persia when he wanted his warriors to kick a** against the Greeks.

[fyds]

At last, someone who tells it as it was. I would add that the army have openly ruled Pakistan since independence and even in the short times of civilian rule, they have been the real force behind the government. I have been told that in recent years Bhutto have become increasingly arrogant and wouldn't listen to any advice. I think we should be very worried about events over there. The country is the capital of Islamist Jihadism and if they can't be stopped there, they can't be stopped period. There's been a tidal wave of volunteers etc flooding from the western part of Pakistan into Afghanistan. The money flows in, Al Qaeda is back there with a vengeance and if that wasn't enough, the country has the atom bomb. It's chief scientist is under house arrest for selling secrets to various people. Nothing appears to be totally reliable over there. Whether Musharraf can keep a lid on it is open to doubt, IMO. Scary.

Hence why I said the charges against her smacked of the whiff of the military and should add, verisimilitude.

 

So, without electing a government dedicated toward democracy, how do you defeat the terrorists?

[Spike]

The virgins thing was actually started by Darius of Persia when he wanted his warriors to kick a** against the Greeks.

 

The ponytailed twunt

[Spike]

The virgins thing was actually started by Darius of Persia when he wanted his warriors to kick a** against the Greeks.

 

The ponytailed twunt

[fyds]

Of course one could never know for certain if she was personally involved but as DGMO put it, Pakistan has been labelled as one of the most corrupt nations on earth and that was before, during and after her tenure. The comparisons to Dennis and Mark Thatcher are wide off the mark. To suggest that Bhutto was completely ignorant and had no part in it makes you think she was incredibly stupid....which she certainly wasn't.

 

Not saying anyone deserved to die or be blown up but the revisionism in the wake of her death is quite interesting.

Nobody suggested she was completely ignorant - which, ironically is where the Thatcher comparisons stand up - I was saying that the giving and recieving of backhanders, bribes or incentives is endemic to every political system ever, anywhere - check the US's dealings over the years with the Saudis, Iran pre Khomeni, Germany with Lockheed, ours with Marconi and Saudi, etc. Bhutto may not have been better than most politicians, but she was no worse either. There's no revisionism going on here - she knew she was going back to a high percentage chance of assassination, which to any rational overview would indicate she had more than simple money (which she has plenty of) and power in mind.

[Kahnee]

I have been told that in recent years Bhutto have become increasingly arrogant and wouldn't listen to any advice.

 

How many of her were there?