top to bottom

[Stevie H]

FA a comedy. even compared with the FAI, italy, spain, wherever.

manager not good enough.

players overhyped and not as good as their pay packets suggest.

english premier league overrated as a domestic division which prizes pace and grit over ability and technique.

too much money in english football feeding the hype lessening players' pride in playing for their national side.

far, far too many people benefiting from finance over achievement within the game.

 

anything else? root and branch reform otherwise forget about international football for the foreseeable?

 

it's that f***ed as far as i can see.

[Molby]

more or less agreed except one:

 

the PL is exciting because it combines the fairness, physical battle, naivety, if you like, and pace of the English game...with the quality of the best English players and of course the top foreign players that have been brought in

 

aprt from that, immediately hang all the FA

 

and hang Lampard

[Stevie H]

know where you're coming from man but in football terms i think exciting = inability. and it gets exposed at the top level (which i don't think is international btw.).

 

the best players technically in the premier league are not english, maybe rooney aside. it's come back to haunt.

[Eskimo]

more or less agreed except one:

 

the PL is exciting because it combines the fairness, physical battle, naivety, if you like, and pace of the English game...with the quality of the best English players and of course the top foreign players that have been brought in

 

aprt from that, immediately hang all the FA

 

and hang Lampard

 

I'd say all of the above are what hold England back in international football...

[Romario]

More foreigners needed in the league to keep the standard up?

[Knox_Harrington]

I'd say all of the above are what hold England back in international football...

But adding one intelligent player in Barry in the centre of the park who worked for the side quietly made a massive difference previously. You can have the blood and thunder, England will only do well when they harness it not if they try and deny it nor if they make a total virtue out of it. The players who can do this are there. Crouch is another one (and is good enough technically). But until they are told to go and run games and given the coaching and tactical initiative required to do so they'll struggle.

 

Impact players should play in the final third. That's where everyone else has them. England has spent too long trying to have impact players playing box to box when I can't think of another country who has had them successfully. The ignorance towards the virtues of the water carrier(s) is what's holding things back and that ignorance is far greater, I'd be willing to venture, within the media and public opinion than the average English coach.

[Ramón Benítez Hernández]

There are not many foreingers in the Australian A-League.

 

We're still sh*t at football.

[Romario]

FA a comedy. even compared with the FAI, italy, spain, wherever. True but Ireland are much worse

manager not good enough. We knew that from day one

players overhyped and not as good as their pay packets suggest. If a club will pay Gerrard what he askes for he deserves it, and he is good enough

english premier league overrated as a domestic division which prizes pace and grit over ability and technique. Not true. Look at how well English teams do in Europe and look at how Arsenal and ManU play week in week out

too much money in english football feeding the hype lessening players' pride in playing for their national side. Nothing to do with money just the red tops feeding the frenzy

far, far too many people benefiting from finance over achievement within the game. Probably true

 

anything else? root and branch reform otherwise forget about international football for the foreseeable?

 

it's that f***ed as far as i can see.

[Des]

english premier league overrated as a domestic division which prizes pace and grit over ability and technique.

 

But still the BBC pundit clowns were banging on at half-time about a "lack of fight" etc as if that were the problem tonight. There seems to be an unwillingness to even countenance the fundamental reason why England were outplayed tonight. Croatia had the conditions sussed and when in possession they always had an option or two for a short pass on that mudbath, keeping it simple. Meanwhile Gerrard seemed to be attempting the same kind of balls he would try on a baking hot afternoon in August on a bone-hard pitch.

 

And doesn't "technically better" just mean "better at football"?

[fyds]

And doesn't "technically better" just mean "better at football"?

Yep, yes it does.

[Eskimo]

But adding one intelligent player in Barry in the centre of the park who worked for the side quietly made a massive difference previously. You can have the blood and thunder, England will only do well when they harness it not if they try and deny it nor if they make a total virtue out of it. The players who can do this are there. Crouch is another one (and is good enough technically). But until they are told to go and run games and given the coaching and tactical initiative required to do so they'll struggle.

 

Impact players should play in the final third. That's where everyone else has them. England has spent too long trying to have impact players playing box to box when I can't think of another country who has had them successfully. The ignorance towards the virtues of the water carrier(s) is what's holding things back and that ignorance is far greater, I'd be willing to venture, within the media and public opinion than the average English coach.

 

Barry did appear to make a difference, whether you can say it was all down to him is another thing but I get the point.

 

England managers have been trying to combine the blood and thunder approach of the PL with a continental style for donkeys years and to date it hasn't worked so I have to disagree when you say we have/have had enough players of sufficient technical ability to achieve this. Managers included. Its like they are determined to marry the two styles but for various reasons its imply doesn't hasn't worked. I'd say feck it play like the continentals, if you can't beat 'em an all that but that would mean wholesale changes in the way we coach players, which would take years.

[Guest SpiritualWarrier]

The top English players have too much money and too much say. The media fawn over their every move on and off the field, they follow their girlfriends/wives and make them 'celebrities' as a result. Take Mrs Rooney for instance, do you think that if fat boy was not a footballer and say a postman, she would have stayed with him after he shagged the granny ? If fat boy was not a footballer, fat girl would be stacking shelves in the Kwiky and not do what she does now. The FA are a bunch of tossers with no idea.

 

Our country has three governing bodies for football - The FA, The Prem and the Football League - does any other country have such a conflict of interest in their national game ?

 

English players are technically not as gifted as most of their foreign counterparts, they are not as comfortable on the ball as their foreign counterparts.

 

Even if England had of qualified, we would have all built our hopes up only to fail at the quarter-final stage once more.

 

The whole game in England needs a complete overhaul starting at the very top.

[Knox_Harrington]

Barry did appear to make a difference, whether you can say it was all down to him is another thing but I get the point.

 

England managers have been trying to combine the blood and thunder approach of the PL with a continental style for donkeys years and to date it hasn't worked so I have to disagree when you say we have/have had enough players of sufficient technical ability to achieve this. Managers included. Its like they are determined to marry the two styles but for various reasons its imply doesn't hasn't worked. I'd say feck it play like the continentals, if you can't beat 'em an all that but that would mean wholesale changes in the way we coach players, which would take years.

I'd say Hoddle and Venables tried it and arguably both came very close and neither lost his job for footballing reasons. Eriksson never really did. Be rock solid and hope your boss players do something boss. Nothing wrong with it as a tactic - at least he actually managed to be pretty solid unlike his successor who didn't really try it either.

 

It was hugely down to Barry. Supporting the man in possession and keeping the ball ticking over in the middle of the park made a massive difference. He came in and supplied the basics but it's the basics which England seem(ed) to be, for whatever reason (I think it's trying to get "stars" on the pitch), so short of and which are so underrated in the national footballing psyche.

[sean]

Technical in my eyes is the ability to retain posession under pressure and not just put the laces through it. The ability to take and make a pass in one touch, be it forward and not always backward. Very few players on these islands are capable, to be quite FRANK.

[charlie clown]

the PL is exciting because it combines the fairness

 

Yeah, the emminently fair play of the likes of Drogba, Barton, Savage, Eboue and Placcy are a beacon of good sportsmanship.

[Stevie H]

Technical in my eyes is the ability to retain posession under pressure and not just put the laces through it. The ability to take and make a pass in one touch, be it forward and not always backward. Very few players on these islands are capable, to be quite FRANK.

was trying to think of some last night and couldn't really get further than barry and carrick. scholes obviously but he's retired.

[Eskimo]

I'd say Hoddle and Venables tried it and arguably both came very close and neither lost his job for footballing reasons. Eriksson never really did. Be rock solid and hope your boss players do something boss. Nothing wrong with it as a tactic - at least he actually managed to be pretty solid unlike his successor who didn't really try it either.

 

It was hugely down to Barry. Supporting the man in possession and keeping the ball ticking over in the middle of the park made a massive difference. He came in and supplied the basics but it's the basics which England seem(ed) to be, for whatever reason (I think it's trying to get "stars" on the pitch), so short of and which are so underrated in the national footballing psyche.

 

They had their moments I grant you that but equally under both England played some atrocious football IIRC. Eriksson is frustrating, he is obviously a good manager so why in his 4 years or however long it was could he not make it work? Did he simply bow to media/fan pressure and pick the so-called best players? I'd like to think he's more intelligent than that, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he looked at it and thought that was his best option i.e. there is feck all chance of me turining this lot into a slick passing machine so I'll just pick the best players and hope for the best because no amount of coaching is going to reverse the damage.

 

As you say Barry played his part but lets not forget that the oppo wasn't exactly world class, they had a stronger team and they stuck to the tried and tested 4-4-2, which IMO all contributed. But I do agree you need workmen and not just show ponies.

 

Regardless the fact remains that at grass level the coaching leaves a lot to be desired and blaming foreigners or limiting their numbers will not change that fact.

 

Oh and if England are to go down the homeboy route I would suggest Coppell, yeah he's an ex-manc but at least his teams try to play football. He is one of the few British managers that IMO deserves a shot with a big team.

[jimmylibel]

FA a comedy. even compared with the FAI, italy, spain, wherever.

 

Hey... look I know this is a time for introspection in English football and that some of the English supporters on here will be hurting right now.

 

But there's no need to go over the top. The FAI is clearly the most incompetent football association in Europe if not the world so hands of that one.

 

We have to pride ourselves on something.

[Boca]

Hey... look I know this is a time for introspection in English football and that some of the English supporters on here will be hurting right now.

 

But there's no need to go over the top. The FAI is clearly the most incompetent football association in Europe if not the world so hands of that one.

 

We have to pride ourselves on something.

 

 

John Delaney - " The FAI are delighted to announce that the new Irish manager is Steve McClaren"

[matty]

The problem is that we have good players who we cannot seem to manage into a decent team. And a succession of spineless managers who pick people on reputation and media pressure, not ability to fit into a team.

[jimmylibel]

John Delaney - " The FAI are delighted to announce that the new Irish manager is Steve McClaren"

 

Exactly. After an extensive search.

 

Brian Barwick at his worst still isn't a patch on the 'great' man.

[Boca]

Exactly. After an extensive search.

 

Brian Barwick at his worst still isn't a patch on the 'great' man.

 

 

Panic is about to set in at Merrion Square. Watch them make a quick appointment now that England have a vacancy as well.

 

They'll try to get Venables now. The muppets.

[Tosh]

was trying to think of some last night and couldn't really get further than barry and carrick. scholes obviously but he's retired.

Hargreaves would have done well in that midfield last night, him and Barry as a rear two in a five man midfield and you'd be getting somewhere. SG ahead of them, JCole and SWP out right. FRANKly, the problem is not too hard to spot....

 

 

Who on here said a couple of days ago that "Carson was in as they (the training camp) had lost confidence in Robinson"?

 

(Oh, s***, it was Stevie, via Oliver Kay...)

Scott Carson back in the frame after crisis of confidence for Paul Robinson

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...icle2903800.ece

 

Oliver Kay

 

Paul Robinson’s fragile hold on the England No 1 jersey appeared weaker than ever last night after an apparent lack of confidence in yesterday’s training session spread panic among Steve McClaren and his players. McClaren is giving serious consideration to handing a competitive debut to Scott Carson in tomorrow’s crucial European Championship qualifying match against Croatia at Wembley and, even if Robinson keeps his place, it may prove to be only a stay of execution as first-choice goalkeeper.

 

Although he has kept clean sheets in all but two of England’s 11 qualifying matches, Robinson’s form has failed to inspire confidence and, after an erratic display at London Colney, the Tottenham Hotspur player’s position is under serious threat. McClaren intended to restore the 28-year-old against Croatia after taking a look at Carson in the 1-0 friendly win over Austria in Vienna on Friday, but that is no longer certain as the head coach ponders the merits of the Aston Villa goalkeeper.

 

It is one of several difficult decisions that McClaren was left to sleep on after a lengthy meeting with his coaching staff at the squad’s Hertfordshire hotel last night. He was also wrestling over whether to persist with David Beckham on the right-hand side, with Shaun Wright-Phillips offering far more pace and penetration, and whether to use Gareth Barry or Owen Hargreaves as the holding midfield player in the expected 4-1-4-1 formation.

 

The Beckham conundrum was said to be too close to call, but Barry was last night considered slight favourite to get the nod over Hargreaves, whose fitness is a cause for concern after his recent knee injury.

 

Even if Robinson is preferred, with England needing only a point to secure qualification, his long-term prospects appear increasingly bleak. It was partly by default — David James suffered a brief loss of form when it mattered — that he kept his place for the critical matches in September and October and, while McClaren may be inclined to go with Robinson’s experience against Croatia, the head coach is prepared to look for a new first-choice goalkeeper once the qualifying campaign is over.

 

Carson, 22, is in pole position, having impressed with Villa since joining the club on loan from Liverpool, but McClaren would also consider the merits of Ben Foster once the 24-year-old has returned from a long-term knee injury at Manchester United.

 

Robert Green has been critical of McClaren’s reluctance to consider him after a fine start to the season with West Ham United, but he may come back into contention.

 

A reliable goalkeeper will be required tomorrow, given the inexperience of a back four that is likely to be without Gary Neville, Rio Ferdinand, John Terry and Ashley Cole. Sol Campbell, at 33, can hardly be accused of lacking experience, but he will be joined in the back line by Micah Richards and Joleon Lescott, who respectively have ten and three caps, and Wayne Bridge, who is again likely to be preferred to Cole at left back because of concerns about his Chelsea colleague’s fitness.

 

In attack, in the absence of Michael Owen and Wayne Rooney because of injury, Peter Crouch appears likely to start as a lone striker. Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard and Joe Cole would offer more attacking impetus in midfield, leaving the vexed issue as to whether Beckham retains his place on the right-hand side ahead of Wright-Phillips, who is fit again.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Tosh

[Stevie H]

agree about the 4-2-3-1 formation with two holding midfielders, probably hargreaves and barry. then in the three, gerrard, rooney and one other. not joe cole though, he's a spoofer. maybe get agbonlahor and young into the set-up now, walcott too.

[Eskimo]

agree about the 4-2-3-1 formation with two holding midfielders, probably hargreaves and barry. then in the three, gerrard, rooney and one other. not joe cole though, he's a spoofer. maybe get agbonlahor and young into the set-up now, walcott too.

 

I really rate this lad...would love to see him at Liverpool.