This "Parking the Bus" Mentality

[Eskimo]

It does my fecking head in

 

Best league in the world? In terms of support and financial rewards, no doubt, but in terms of competitiveness? For me La Liga wins hands down and before anyone mentions it the financial rewards are relative. It now seem that being in the top flight is enough for most clubs.

 

Is it time the FA stepped in and if so what can they do? Make the league smaller, say 15 teams, scrap a point for a draw?

[The walters step over]

It does my fecking head in

 

Best league in the world? In terms of support and financial rewards, no doubt, but in terms of competitiveness? For me La Liga wins hands down and before anyone mentions it the financial rewards are relative. It now seem that being in the top flight is enough for most clubs.

 

Is it time the FA stepped in and if so what can they do? Make the league smaller, say 15 teams, scrap a point for a draw?

 

 

True. Sky's "best league in the world" shyte does my head in, if you watch two mid table teams play each other in Spain they play the ball along the ground and try to construct attacks - over here it's "let's t**t the ball up the pitch and hope that something falls for us".

 

Imo, it's precisely the reason that England has won bugger all - too much percentage football, we just get picked off at the highest level. As long as we've got the foreigners to blame though, nothing will ever change/improve.

[Hassony]

True. Sky's "best league in the world" shyte does my head in, if you watch two mid table teams play each other in Spain they play the ball along the ground and try to construct attacks - over here it's "let's t**t the ball up the pitch and hope that something falls for us".

 

Imo, it's precisely the reason that England has won bugger all - too much percentage football, we just get picked off at the highest level. As long as we've got the foreigners to blame though, nothing will ever change/improve.

 

spain on the other hand have won precisly how many tournements?

[pipnasty]

spain on the other hand have won precisly how many tournements?

 

The same amount as England?

[Hassony]

The same amount as England?

both in the sixties, which  means the difference in quality of football in the league means feck all when it comes to international football.

[The walters step over]

spain on the other hand have won precisly how many tournements?

 

erm...good point

[Eskimo]

Feck international football, that's not the point of the post...

[Puskas]

3 points for a win was supposed to stop this park the bus mentality. I guess one point is still better than none. We should find a way to penalise nil-nil draws more.

 

So how about:

• 4 points for a win
  
• 1 point for a nil-nil draw
  
• 2 points for a score draw
  
• 1 bonus point for scoring three goals or more
  
• 1 bonus point for only getting beat by the odd goal
  

So a 2:1 or 3:2 defeat would net you as many points as 0:0 draw. A 3:1 defeat would net you nothing. A 3:3 draw would net 3 points for both teams - almost as many as winning 1 or 2 nil. Winning and scoring at least three goals would be the aim of all the better teams (5 points), and scoring one less than the opposition at least would be the goal of the less good teams.

 

It would liven things up at least

[Eskimo]

I wasn't thinking of anything as drastic, or confusing

 

It has to be a system which rewards positive play so awarding a point for a goalless draw is a no-no IMO, a score draw yes. Granted its not fair on the smaller teams who rely on draws to keep them up but in the longterm it may have a positive effect and actually raise standards.

[Woodsyla]

3 points for a win was supposed to stop this park the bus mentality. I guess one point is still better than none. We should find a way to penalise nil-nil draws more.

 

So how about:

• 4 points for a win
  
• 1 point for a nil-nil draw
  
• 2 points for a score draw
  
• 1 bonus point for scoring three goals or more
  
• 1 bonus point for only getting beat by the odd goal
  

So a 2:1 or 3:2 defeat would net you as many points as 0:0 draw. A 3:1 defeat would net you nothing. A 3:3 draw would net 3 points for both teams - almost as many as winning 1 or 2 nil. Winning and scoring at least three goals would be the aim of all the better teams (5 points), and scoring one less than the opposition at least would be the goal of the less good teams.

 

It would liven things up at least

 

Wont somebody think of the defenders. If you want attack attack attack go elsewhere. A 1-0 win is fine. The points system works perfectly, we failed to break down a determined defence.

[Andy Mac]

What's wrong with the parking the bus mentality?

 

We've won many a european tie (over two legs ) by having a strong defence and not conceding in the away leg. We also won many a league title by playing like that away from home at difficult grounds.

 

The onus is on the home team to win the game. If you can't break this 'system' down then you don't deserve to get 3 points. That point for Birmingham is certainly a point gained over their rivals as I suspect not many of the relegation contenders will come to Anfield and get away with a draw.

 

Or will they?

[Hassony]

I understand it in europe, but why is "The onus is on the home team to win the game" in the league, why do teams play differently home and away, is it just in the mind?

[Eskimo]

What's wrong with the parking the bus mentality?

 

We've won many a European tie (over two legs ) by having a strong defense and not conceding in the away leg. We also won many a league title by playing like that away from home at difficult grounds.

 

The onus is on the home team to win the game. If you can't break this 'system' down then you don't deserve to get 3 points. That point for Birmingham is certainly a point gained over their rivals as I suspect not many of the relegation contenders will come to Infield and get away with a draw.

 

Or will they?

 

It does the game no favors IMO, as a spectacle at least. In a way its like the Italian mentality of score one and shut-up shop which resulted in their game going down the pan in many respects. I remember when Channel 4 first started showing live Italian games, great to start off with an all but the novelty soon wore off after watching a year of dull and often goalless matches. I'm looking at this purely from an entertainment point of view mind...

 

I'm not advocating it for Europe as on the whole I don't see too much wrong with the CL/UEFA Cup as they are.

 

To an extent yes the onus is on the home and I also understand that your Derby's etc aren't at the same level and in order to survive they need to play a negative brand of football on their travels. Although sadly far too many also employ these tactics at home. Yet you don't see this in La Liga, at least nowhere near as much, why?

 

As I said I think far too many clubs are just content with staying in the league and IMO that does nowt to raise the standards of the game. When you talk to supporters from other countries they all say the same thing re the Prem take out the top 4 and the rest are beyond s****. Granted every leagues has its top clubs but again using La Liga as an example you hardly ever get the same clubs finishing in the top 4, why?

[Gilps]

I don't believe that a display of good attacking football is in itself more worthy of reward than a display of god defensive football, so I don't see any reason for a change that's about rewarding one more than the other.

[NWR]

I think the point is being missed here. Yes teams do park the bus, but what you are really upset about is the fact you failed to break through and score. I have seen this with United time after time. We run out of ideas. Sometimes a player like Ronaldo will pop up in the last seconds and steal the win but not always.

 

I sometimes think our teams should just sit back and pretend to be tired and make a few bad passes. Lull them onto the attack for 10 -15 minutes near the end of a boring 0-0 game, then hit them on the break. Dangerous I know.

[Hassony]

I think the point is being missed here. Yes teams do park the bus, but what you are really upset about is the fact you failed to break through and score. I have seen this with United time after time. We run out of ideas. Sometimes a player like Ronaldo will pop up in the last seconds and steal the win but not always.

 

I sometimes think our teams should just sit back and pretend to be tired and make a few bad passes. Lull them onto the attack for 10 -15 minutes near the end of a boring 0-0 game, then hit them on the break. Dangerous I know.

thats whats so annoying about torres not starting the game for me, we only have Torres and gerrard as potential match winners (oh how we miss luis garcia )

[Sion]

Is it time the FA stepped in and if so what can they do? Make the league smaller, say 15 teams, scrap a point for a draw?

 

Why don't we just scrap matches all together and let the pools panel decide the outcome of games?

[_00_deathscar]

I don't believe that a display of good attacking football is in itself more worthy of reward than a display of god defensive football, so I don't see any reason for a change that's about rewarding one more than the other.

 

This man makes sense.

[goodrobotusses]

I think the whole parking the bus thing is a legitimate tactical thing - we've done it ourselves many times. But the whole Sky myth about the Premier League being football valhalla is b******s definitely. In terms of footballing quality, outside the top four and the odd Spurs-level team on a good day, the standard of play is s****. Tried to watch Newcastle v. West Ham yesterday and I just couldn't last beyond the first half hour - it was absolutely dire, embarrassing. Then I watched one of La Liga's lesser lights, Valladolid, play Real Madrid off the park later on. Not through dogged physical play, but by actually playing football.

 

But I guess this all stems back to English youth development, history, tradition, etc. The majority of English players and English teams have woeful technique, because the nature of the game here is so high-tempo and 'blood & thunder' that players don't get the chance to do anything constructive with the ball, and panic in possession. And that happens from our youngsters, through the lower leagues and into the Premier League. Only the very, very top end players (usually foreign imports) have the ability to technically manipulate the ball as they like while thinking quick enough to do anything with it before they get clattered.

 

Yeah, the pace of football here makes for great entertainment at times - end-to-end football and lots of goals - but often that's more attributed to poor team organisation defensively when team's lose the ball halfway up the field and are totally open to quick counter attacks. Hence parking the bus, I guess.

[meepins]

3 points for a win was supposed to stop this park the bus mentality. I guess one point is still better than none. We should find a way to penalise nil-nil draws more.

 

So how about:

• 4 points for a win
  
• 1 point for a nil-nil draw
  
• 2 points for a score draw
  
• 1 bonus point for scoring three goals or more
  
• 1 bonus point for only getting beat by the odd goal
  

So a 2:1 or 3:2 defeat would net you as many points as 0:0 draw. A 3:1 defeat would net you nothing. A 3:3 draw would net 3 points for both teams - almost as many as winning 1 or 2 nil. Winning and scoring at least three goals would be the aim of all the better teams (5 points), and scoring one less than the opposition at least would be the goal of the less good teams.

 

It would liven things up at least

How about a bonus goal for scoring with your left foot? Also instead of no score draws, have the teams decide the match with a game of head and vollies.

[Guest Snorky]

Why not just give a point for each goal scored ?

[Guest Kaizer]

Why not just give a point for each goal scored ?

 

Like in dropping points all together and just going with the goal difference?

[growler]

seriously, though. the best way to fix the game, is to get the rules right. clamp down on shirt tugging, diving, complaining to the Ref and force the players and managers to focus on just playing the game. Get 4 linesmen, and get rid of the excess around the game. then people won't mind a 0-0 or a strong defensive display if its tactically right, rather than a cynical defensive play.

 

Also, I think winning by by more than 4 goals and keeping a clean sheet should be a bonus point. rewards defence and attack play.

[Maldini]

Defending is as much a part of the game as attacking, if you can't score against a team who only came to defend then you don't deserve to win. It doesn't always make for a great spectacle, but sometimes it's interesting.

[John am Rhein]

Whether or not 'parking the bus' is a legitimate tactic, what's certainly clear is that it's an effective tactic - teams wouldn't keep doing it if it didn't work.

 

So can anyone explain why it's assumed (and observed) to be effective when a team like Birmingham do it to defend a 0-0 at Anfield, but if a team like Liverpool do it to defend a 1-0 lead somewhere then it's assumed to be an error and likely to result in the other team equalising ('conceding the initiative' and similar chichéd b*llsh1t)? Liverpool, with better defenders and a better goalkeeper, should actually be even better at it than Birmingham are.

Edited September 25, 2007 by John am Rhein