No excuses... we should have won yesterday

[Chewie]

all the excuses in the world won't stop the fact that yesterday our team was made up of...

 

Reina - one of the best in the world

 

Degen - Swiss International

Carra - nuff said

Kyriagos - played at international level for Greece

Insua - part of Argentina International squad at such a young age

 

Macherano - one of the best in the world in his position

Lucas - who HAS played well for us this season and is in both our and Brazilian International squad

 

Kuyt - regularly starts for Holland

Benni - one of our top players this year... Israeli International / Captain

 

Torres - nuff said

 

I've left out the Vog as I don't want to introduce spleen into what is an attempt to be rational...

 

bottom line is that that team should have been enough to beat a badly depleted Fulham team. Most of our players would walk into Fulham's team.

 

From pre-season we seem to be lacking in energy, motivation, confidence and - at times this is hardest to believe - tactial nous. We look flat, play flat, and often have little to no imagination. Regardless of ownership issues this is a coaching matter. The other coaching matter is the lack of options up front. I know people say this is a lack of funds but Rafa has built up this team now to have options in every area of the pitch yet we only have one striker at the club - one! In the meantime we have managed to see Crouch, Bellamy, Pongolle, even Keane - come and go.... these are not bad options! These are not poor premiership players... with the sole exception of Torres we have not traded up in the striker department during Rafa's tenure... just before Rafa arrived we had Owen, Heskey and Baros - now we have Torres and basically that's it! This too is a coaching issue as even the players brought in to supposedly develop the team in this area of the pitch have not been developed and built into a consistent formidable unit. I am where I was a few weeks ago - fearing for our future with Rafa but even more so fearing for it without him as I dare say no-one else in world football would come to us now with the ownership issue the way it is.

 

There are huge problems off the pitch and Rafa deserves a medal for what he has done in the club with so little stability... but he is not beyond reproach... this has been a shocking start to the season and with the players at his disposal I think he should be getting a lot more out of this team, and has seriously under-developed one crucial area of the squad...

 

Chewie

[Zoob]

I'll give an alternative view -

 

 

Reina - one of the best in the world - agreed.

 

Degen - Swiss International but completely untried in the league, and hardly played in 2 years.

Carra - Man Utd aside, has been struggling this season. Panics when playing against players faster than him. Most players are faster than him

Kyriagos - stop gap desperation signing that is only here because we're broke. Better than nothing, but far worse than player such as Shawcross, Turner (and no doubt others) who were way ahead on the wish list.

Insua - very promising, but still has a lot of work to do on defensive part of his game (witness 1st goal).

 

Macherano - doesn't look ready to die for the team as he did in first 2 years.

Lucas - One of only a few players who looked like he actually gave a crap.

 

Kuyt - ran himself into the ground, but yesterday that kind of backfired - helped set up their 2nd goal trying to prevent Fulham getting a throw in.

Benni - one of only a few players in good form. Was unlucky not to score.

 

Torres - nuff said - but nowhere near fully fit. Taking him off was more sensible than risking losing him for a few weeks.

Edited November 1, 2009 by Zoob

[Gunga Din]

the team was more than a match for Fulham. Fulham wanted it more. thats the disturbing thing

[madaboutlfc]

when kuyt stopped the ball going out Degen chickened out.. Fulhams record at home is pretty damn good

[windy city red]

when kuyt stopped the ball going out Degen chickened out.. Fulhams record at home is pretty damn good

 

Yup, that pretty much happened. so damn disappointing.

[Chewie]

even with the alternative view I think the points raised still stand...

 

1. the players we had should have been capable of beating the players Fulham had...so agree with Gunga there...

2. if players such as Carra and Masch are not what they were then why not? All players go through bad form but both looked pretty decent last Sunday...

3. Kuyt and Benny should have more than enough in the locker against mediocrity

 

I know that on any given Sunday one inferior team can raise its game against another team... but here's a thought for us all... perhaps that's what happened when we played the mancs last Sunday...

 

in every competition both pre and during this season the teams that have been sent out to play should be at least a match for the opposition but against Villa, Florientina, Lyon, Spurs etc we have come a cropper. we look stale and we look out of ideas. Everyone knows rafa likes 4-2-3-1... yet therein lies part of the problem - everyone knows that shape now! We are totally set up for one man up front - this is one of the reasons why we supposedly have to think twice about signing another striker (even if we did have the money) - who wants to sit on the bench and watch Nando - but that is just so short sighted its unreal. What about the times when we need to mix it up - go 4-4-2 like we did against the mancs and actually surpirse someone, or play 3 up front (remember the night we were able to do this with Heskey, Owen and Anelka against Newcastle - who could even begin to play in the roles they played that night). From July we have not looked like a cohesive outfit and all we hear are excuses about owners etc. I hate the Yanks, they are tearing this club apart from the inside out and making it a laughing stock in world football... but once again let's look at the facts....

 

GK - covered, no issues

Defence - Johnston, Degen, Carra, Skrtl, Agger, Insua, Aurelio (dossena, the greek)

Midfield - Kuyt, Benny, Reira, Gerrard, Masch, Lucas, Babel, (Aquilani.... see below)

Forward - Torres (not even going to mention the others Vog, N'gog etc)

 

even with injuries from GK to midfield we have the same players as last year minus Alonso (perhaps we were a one man team rather than a two man team and that one player has left for Madrid because that's the only difference from last season)

 

we have options and decent players who at the minute look like nothing - why is that? What is going on at the training pitch? Were is the confidence? Where is the variance in tactics? Why do we look so flat - the yanks have nothing to do with what happens once thw white line is crossed and the whistle blows. Our teams should be set up to show more heart, more ideas and more will to win than they have been showing since pre-season (when we kept getting told that results didn't matter....now we're being told that trophies don't matter.... - have I missed something. Has the simplicity of the beautiful game gone and left forever? The idea that if we score more goals than them we will win the game and if we win more games than them we should have the prize at the end of it all?!)

 

something is wrong and it's not all in the boardroom. Our lack of attacking options is pitiful and it is a very bvious balck mark against Rafa's judgment. With the exception of Torres it would appear that under Bentiez players such as Morientes, Crouch, Bellamy, Keane cannot cut it and others like Pongolle and Mellor cannot be developed (or used as squad back-up they way we know use Vog and N'gog). This is a problem. Only one striker has proved himself to be of any merit under the management of Benitez and sooner or later the common factor is less and less likely to be that somehow it was all their fault.... mid-table premiership teams have more strength in depth than we have and they haven't spent big money...

 

(and as an aside, yes, we bought Aquilani - but experience has told us that this league cannot be won in the Autumn but it can be lost here. It used to be that a post Christmas surge was what was needed but even Slur Alex recognised that things changed a few years back. The league winners know need 85-90 points, not 76-80. that means winning right from the outset... with all that in mind it genuinely does seem questionabble to buy a player who, if he is to have the same warm-up that other players get pre-season, will probably be about right to play properly come Christmas. Long term he could be amazing for us.... but things seems so delicately poised now that what if short term the lack of an immediate replacement is going to cost us so dearly that the resultant falling away in the league and Champs league might spell disaster for the longer term viability of retaining or purchasing any player in the 20 mill bracket. Once again the manager made a decision and has to live and die by his decisions. So far this one is proving to have been an error of judgment...)

 

So, back on point - we have been poor this season and its not simply about lack of investment. We are lacking in ideas, motivation, heart, tactical nous, and the will to win. these things are nurtured on the training ground, not in the boardroom. We obviously are suffering from a lack of investment.... but the quality that is there is not living up to its potential and that is worrying...

 

Chewie

 

 

I'll give an alternative view -

Reina - one of the best in the world - agreed.

 

Degen - Swiss International but completely untried in the league, and hardly played in 2 years.

Carra - Man Utd aside, has been struggling this season. Panics when playing against players faster than him. Most players are faster than him

Kyriagos - stop gap desperation signing that is only here because we're broke. Better than nothing, but far worse than player such as Shawcross, Turner (and no doubt others) who were way ahead on the wish list.

Insua - very promising, but still has a lot of work to do on defensive part of his game (witness 1st goal).

 

Macherano - doesn't look ready to die for the team as he did in first 2 years.

Lucas - One of only a few players who looked like he actually gave a crap.

 

Kuyt - ran himself into the ground, but yesterday that kind of backfired - helped set up their 2nd goal trying to prevent Fulham getting a throw in.

Benni - one of only a few players in good form. Was unlucky not to score.

 

Torres - nuff said - but nowhere near fully fit. Taking him off was more sensible than risking losing him for a few weeks.

[Dan]

the team was more than a match for Fulham. Fulham wanted it more. thats the disturbing thing

 

I don't think its that to be honest.

 

We were by far the better team until they scored and then our mental fragility was exposed imo.

 

When your squad is decimated and you dominate the opening 20 mins then concede with a flukey goal (Duff shot) the doubts inevitably creep in. You've got wasters like Voronin and Babel but apart from those two tw*ts we wanted it. Not making excuses just think confidence is a bigger problem than desire at the moment.

[Red Kent]

Fulham may have wanted it more, but my take is that we were out thought. Fulham parked the bus and hit us on the counter attack extremely effectively.

 

We lacked the nouse and speed to break them down.

[Mike]

yesterday was quite simple. we can't defend and we lack a cutting edge without torres or with a half fit torres we rely on his genius to bail us out.

we absolutely anilhated them in the first half, yet they broke and scored because our full backs positioning and defending is abysmal. repeat x 3.

the sending off's are almost a side issue, as we had stopped being a threat by then, but they undoubtedly contributed heavily to the eventual scoreline.

the flip side is we have a whole bunch of players who wont step up and seize the initiative. the amount of opportunities kuyt et al get to shoot yet don't take it is beyond irritating.

we have a team of support actors and no leading men without torres and stevie g and it's a poor state of affairs. i am so dissapointed with kuyt this season, he's had a real opportunity to lead and he has singularly failed to take it.

Edited November 1, 2009 by Mike

[D.Boon]

Has kuyt gotten even slower this season?

[FC Showster]

Fulham may have wanted it more, but my take is that we were out thought. Fulham parked the bus and hit us on the counter attack extremely effectively.

 

We lacked the nouse and speed to break them down.

 

We also lacked the nouse and speed to defend their counter attacks because we defended like a championship side and we've defended poorly all season. There's an elephant in the room and it isn't Voronin

[FC Showster]

yesterday was quite simple. we can't defend and we lack a cutting edge without torres or with a half fit torres we rely on his genius to bail us out.

we absolutely anilhated them in the first half, yet they broke and scored because our full backs positioning and defending is abysmal. repeat x 3.

 

First goal they broke and scored because Carragher is 5-6 yards deeper than he should be because he's so scared of anyone with a hint of pace. That bit higher up and he's heading a ball clear rather than watch the play get spread out to Duff. It doesn't excuse not picking up Zamora but we seem to have an incredibly soft centre this year if the opposition attack

[Mike]

We also lacked the nouse and speed to defend their counter attacks because we defended like a championship side and we've defended poorly all season. There's an elephant in the room and it isn't Voronin

 

and you're wrong about who and the what the elephant is.

[Marvin]

Kuyt has been very poor this season. I'm not having a go because I like Dirk and he has worked his socks off but I thought in the Man U game nothing he tried seem to come off and he was not much better yesterday.

[Mike]

Kuyt has been very poor this season. I'm not having a go because I like Dirk and he has worked his socks off but I thought in the Man U game nothing he tried seem to come off and he was not much better yesterday.

he is in a very poor run of form.

[Flanders]

Kuyt has been very poor this season. I'm not having a go because I like Dirk and he has worked his socks off but I thought in the Man U game nothing he tried seem to come off and he was not much better yesterday.

He was personified by the his decision to look for a team mate instead of taking a shot against MU.

[Gunga Din]

he is in a very poor run of form.

 

he isnt on his own either. half the team is badly out of form. infact, some of them started pre season badly and have got steadily worse. If Torres gets a long term injury, we could struggle to finish in the top half

Edited November 1, 2009 by Gunga Din

[Red Kent]

he isnt on his own either. half the team is badly out of form. infact, some of them started pre season badly and have got steadily worse.

 

and I was slagged off by so many for saying that pre-season is so vital.

[Mike]

and I was slagged off by so many for saying that pre-season is so vital.

 

victims are not in short supply here

[yellow jumper]

yesterday was quite simple. we can't defend and we lack a cutting edge without torres or with a half fit torres we rely on his genius to bail us out.

we absolutely anilhated them in the first half, yet they broke and scored because our full backs positioning and defending is abysmal.

 

and you're wrong about who and the what the elephant is.

 

the full backs were poor yesterday, but it doesn't change the fact that carragher's been struggling Mike, even in his better performances this season he's had one or two moments where he's failed to compete with pace or power. nothing to do with anyone else.

 

johnson was bought to offer some of that cutting edge you're talking about, not in front of goal obviously, but by acting as an auxiliary winger. carragher's had the same problems beside him too.

 

probably in the short term we need to get back to playing more to carra's strengths; a deeper line, more compact, defend tight. but in terms of going from what we were last season to the next level i'd say its right that we'd be looking to push higher up the pitch, press our full backs forward.

[usualsuspect]

Chewie - excellent points raised.

 

What is even more alarming for me is we have lost 6 our of our last 7 games and a run like that can totally destroy the confidence of a squad.