Oh dear...'der Kop'

[fyds]

Many famous people have stood (or more latterly sat) on the Kop - Rex Harrison, Ted Ray, John Lennon, Harold Wilson, Jimmy Tarbuck, Glenda Jackson, various assorted pop & rock grandees and ..er... Doddy. A friend of mine (sort of) is currently writing a social history paper about the growth of working class sport in the UK in the first half of the 20th century, and how it's early effects have since taken root in our current lives, dominating much of TV schedules, newspaper and media coverage etc. Anyway, being a one-time Kopite himself, he was researching all manner of documentation, old programmes, letters, diaries and books in city and various cultural archives and found out many things he didn't previously know, and probably neither did anyone else.

 

His research is due to be published in some form (not sure what, as I don't know who has provided funding) later this year after Conferencing - and it contains one interesting snippet which he feels will finally prove something many historians (by no means all) have disputed - namely, that Adolf Hitler visited Liverpool in Autumn 1912 for a short stay with his half brother Alois Hitler, who was then living in Stanhope Street. Hitler liked football - one of the few sports he did like (the Nazis ploughed monet into 'his team', Schalke 04) and Alois and his friend Wilfred Taplow took young Adolf to watch a game - at Anfield, where they stood on the Kop and watched us play Blackburn Rovers.

 

So there you have it - Rex Harrison, Ted Ray, John Lennon, Harold Wilson, Jimmy Tarbuck, Glenda Jackson, various assorted pop & rock grandees, Doddy and ..er... Adolf Hitler.

 

I've asked him if I can post the relevant pages when his paper is published, and he said yes....can't wait

[Mono]

Don't tell Paulo Di Canio

[Rushian]

I looked into this pre-Xmas and was pretty sure the story could never be authenticated. Bit of an urban myth if anything.

[Andy Mac]

. Hitler liked football - one of the few sports he did like (the Nazis ploughed monet into 'his team', Schalke 04)

 

Well, they were very impressionable, the Nazis.

 

 

I've heard that Hitler did, indeed, sit on the Kop. He was a fussy bugger, though. He would only go if he could have (Zeig) Aisle seat

Edited February 2, 2006 by Andy Mac

[Mono]

I looked into this pre-Xmas and was pretty sure the story could never be authenticated. Bit of an urban myth if anything.

 

Send it off to www.snopes.com/ for them to authenticate the claim.....

Really interesting site for proving/disproving urban myths

[Gunga Din]

Many famous people have stood (or more latterly sat) on the Kop - Rex Harrison, Ted Ray, John Lennon, Harold Wilson, Jimmy Tarbuck, Glenda Jackson, various assorted pop & rock grandees and ..er... Doddy. A friend of mine (sort of) is currently writing a social history paper about the growth of working class sport in the UK in the first half of the 20th century, and how it's early effects have since taken root in our current lives, dominating much of TV schedules, newspaper and media coverage etc. Anyway, being a one-time Kopite himself, he was researching all manner of documentation, old programmes, letters, diaries and books in city and various cultural archives and found out many things he didn't previously know, and probably neither did anyone else.

 

His research is due to be published in some form (not sure what, as I don't know who has provided funding) later this year after Conferencing - and it contains one interesting snippet which he feels will finally prove something many historians (by no means all) have disputed - namely, that Adolf Hitler visited Liverpool in Autumn 1912 for a short stay with his half brother Alois Hitler, who was then living in Stanhope Street. Hitler liked football - one of the few sports he did like (the Nazis ploughed monet into 'his team', Schalke 04) and Alois and his friend Wilfred Taplow took young Adolf to watch a game - at Anfield, where they stood on the Kop and watched us play Blackburn Rovers.

 

So there you have it - Rex Harrison, Ted Ray, John Lennon, Harold Wilson, Jimmy Tarbuck, Glenda Jackson, various assorted pop & rock grandees, Doddy and ..er... Adolf Hitler.

 

I've asked him if I can post the relevant pages when his paper is published, and he said yes....can't wait

 

 

heard that before, not sure how true it is. wasnt Osama bin Ladan a frequent visitor at Highbury and an Avid Arsenal fan when he lived in London?

[WillG]

where they stood on the Kop and watched us play Blackburn Rovers.

 

*shudder*

 

Could you imagine him, Bellamy & Savage at the same place and the same time, you just wouldn't know who to t*** first!!

 

oh . . . I thought 1912 meant nearly quarter past seven

Edited February 2, 2006 by KENNYISGOD

[Kvarme Ate My Food]

I've heard that Hitler did, indeed, sit on the Kop.

 

I've no idea if he went to the match, but I'll bet you anything he didn't sit on the Kop

[fyds]

I looked into this pre-Xmas and was pretty sure the story could never be authenticated. Bit of an urban myth if anything.

That his half-brother and his wife Brigid, lived in Stanhope Street, there is no doubt - William Patrick Hitler, Adolf's nephew was born there. And that Alois sent the then down and out Adolf an invite to come to Liverpool and help his fledgling razor business, is also not in doubt, as the letter still exists. What has always been in doubt is if he actually came - Hitler himself makes no mention of it, but then largely falsifies his 'down and out in Vienna' years anyway in Mein Kampf, going so far as to having all records of his movements and activities in pre WWI Vienna siezed and destroyed the moment the Nazi's rolled into Austria for the Anschuss - or so he thought - records did turn up piecemeal in later years that had been hidden by anti-nazis. Until Dr Tom (my erstwhile mate) reckoned he has proof, the only known source for Hitler having been in Liverpool at all was Brigid Hitler herself - deemed an 'unreliable' witness.

 

So - if not an urban myth, a family fabrication was always my understanding, but a fabrication nonetheless - I'll be fascinated to see what this evidence he reckons he has is. I keep thinking maybe it's something like that photo of Hitler in the Kaiserhof in Munich as part of a large crowd at the announcement of hostilities in 1914?

 

Send it off to www.snopes.com/ for them to authenticate the claim.....

Really interesting site for proving/disproving urban myths

As this is as yet unpublished research, I can't see how that will help?

[Rushian]

That his half-brother and his wife Brigid, lived in Stanhope Street, there is no doubt - William Patrick Hitler, Adolf's nephew was born there. And that Alois sent the then down and out Adolf an invite to come to Liverpool and help his fledgling razor business, is also not in doubt, as the letter still exists. What has always been in doubt is if he actually came - Hitler himself makes no mention of it, but then largely falsifies his 'down and out in Vienna' years anyway in Mein Kampf, going so far as to having all records of his movements and activities in pre WWI Vienna siezed and destroyed the moment the Nazi's rolled into Austria for the Anschuss - or so he thought - records did turn up piecemeal in later years that had been hidden by anti-nazis. Until Dr Tom (my erstwhile mate) reckoned he has proof, the only known source for Hitler having been in Liverpool at all was Brigid Hitler herself - deemed an 'unreliable' witness.

 

So - if not an urban myth, a family fabrication was always my understanding, but a fabrication nonetheless - I'll be fascinated to see what this evidence he reckons he has is. I keep thinking maybe it's something like that photo of Hitler in the Kaiserhof in Munich as part of a large crowd at the announcement of hostilities in 1914?

 

That's my understanding of it exactly - and much better explained than I could! Will be very interesting to see what he has found - even if it's confirmation he did stay in Liverpool it would be a major historical step forward, let alone the Anfield bit.

[fyds]

heard that before, not sure how true it is. wasnt Osama bin Ladan a frequent visitor at Highbury and an Avid Arsenal fan when he lived in London?

Well he was apparently an Arsenal fan - no idea if he ever went the 'Library' though - might explain his penchant for caves?

[Gunga Din]

That his half-brother and his wife Brigid, lived in Stanhope Street, there is no doubt - William Patrick Hitler, Adolf's nephew was born there. And that Alois sent the then down and out Adolf an invite to come to Liverpool and help his fledgling razor business, is also not in doubt, as the letter still exists. What has always been in doubt is if he actually came - Hitler himself makes no mention of it, but then largely falsifies his 'down and out in Vienna' years anyway in Mein Kampf, going so far as to having all records of his movements and activities in pre WWI Vienna siezed and destroyed the moment the Nazi's rolled into Austria for the Anschuss - or so he thought - records did turn up piecemeal in later years that had been hidden by anti-nazis. Until Dr Tom (my erstwhile mate) reckoned he has proof, the only known source for Hitler having been in Liverpool at all was Brigid Hitler herself - deemed an 'unreliable' witness.

 

So - if not an urban myth, a family fabrication was always my understanding, but a fabrication nonetheless - I'll be fascinated to see what this evidence he reckons he has is. I keep thinking maybe it's something like that photo of Hitler in the Kaiserhof in Munich as part of a large crowd at the announcement of hostilities in 1914?

As this is as yet unpublished research, I can't see how that will help?

 

 

maybe he has a picture of Hitler outside "the Albert" wearing a jester hat and a half and half Liverpool Schalke04 scarf?

[fyds]

That's my understanding of it exactly - and much better explained than I could! Will be very interesting to see what he has found - even if it's confirmation he did stay in Liverpool it would be a major historical step forward, let alone the Anfield bit.

I agree completely - this is one of those - (I hesitate to call it a 'story' just in case!) - things that scousers of a certain age have grown up hearing about, yet of which little solid fact has ever been known - perhaps not as surprising as it may seem, as after the war, many people may well have wanted to 'forget all about it'. If he has finally got tangible proof (I have not seen whatever it may be yet so have no idea even what form it takes) then it certainly is one historical veil lifted - and it then begs other questions about exactly what happened to him next in this very formative period of what we can almost disgustingly call his 'weltanschauung' or 'world overview/philosophy.

 

maybe he has a picture of Hitler outside "the Albert" wearing a jester hat and a half and half Liverpool Schalke04 scarf?

 

Shouting 'For You Englanders - der chippy will soon be over!'

[Ronnie Whelan]

Well he was apparently an Arsenal fan - no idea if he ever went the 'Library' though - might explain his penchant for caves?

 

 

Didnt the sell the naming rights of their new stadium to Al-Queda?

[SkippyjonJones]

We played Blackburn on 19th October 1912 and beat them 4-1 at home.

 

just for the record

[fyds]

We played Blackburn on 19th October 1912 and beat them 4-1 at home.

 

just for the record

Ta! Well he got that much right then...

 

Alles zussamen!

Ein Ephraim Longworth!

Es gibt nur Ephraim Longworth!

[Leo No.8]

maybe he has a picture of Hitler outside "the Albert" wearing a jester hat and a half and half Liverpool Schalke04 scarf?

 

 

Makes today's OOTs seem damn good compared to the old days.

 

We may ocassionally complain about their jester hats and lack of song knowledge, but at least they aren't genocidal...

[Ed the Wool]

Well, they were very impressionable, the Nazis.

I've heard that Hitler did, indeed, sit on the Kop. He was a fussy bugger, though. He would only go if he could have (Zeig) Aisle seat

 

[fyds]

 

Makes today's OOTs seem damn good compared to the old days.

 

We may ocassionally complain about their jester hats and lack of song knowledge, but at least they aren't genocidal...

You haven't met Dipesh, have you?

[DanielS]

 

Makes today's OOTs seem damn good compared to the old days.

 

We may ocassionally complain about their jester hats and lack of song knowledge, but at least they aren't genocidal...

 

There might have been a 1912 version of Kev who gave Hitler grief about his Jester hat. Humiliated, Hitler might have gone back to Germany in a seeting huff and the entire Second World War may have been caused by Hitler trying to get back at 1912-Kev. No?

[fyds]

There might have been a 1912 version of Kev who gave Hitler grief about his Jester hat. Humiliated, Hitler might have gone back to Germany in a seeting huff and the entire Second World War may have been caused by Hitler trying to get back at 1912-Kev. No?

'Zat Herr Shimmins voss throwing me out of zer ground for wearing ein Jester ger-hat und havink ein pyootiful Swastika shaped rattle - he voss also saying ich bin ein brown - hatter! Brown hats? I'll show him vot is vot mit meinen Brown shirts ven I take over ein country!'

[Ronnie Whelan]

There might have been a 1912 version of Kev who gave Hitler grief about his Jester hat. Humiliated, Hitler might have gone back to Germany in a seeting huff and the entire Second World War may have been caused by Hitler trying to get back at 1912-Kev. No?

 

 

I cant see any other plausible reason.

[Des]

Apparently he was a nice bloke until he had a chat at half time with Murphman about politics.

[cymrococh]

Germans have got funny accents.

[Leo No.8]

this thread is going to be a classic...