The Mass Exodus

[Clay Davis]

Has this ever happened before in English football?

 

f***ing iphone. Ignore whole bloody topic actually, ill repost when im on a proper non s**** browser

[Frosty Jack]

Fascinated to know what you're talking about!

[Foo]

Fk if I know what the heck you're on about?

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

[New York Red]

Love this. So f*cked up that it makes complete sense when you write it. But it is complete craziness.

 

Good lad. We've all been there.

[Zoob]

[Clay Davis]

What I was going to write about our best players and manager going to other top clubs in Europe and whether any team had done it and come back stronger... actually is a load of s****. As you were.

[épieur]

Arsenal have sold off quite a few players at the top of their game over the years and stayed strong.

 

Wenger is possible the most shrewd buyer in the transfer market though.

 

 

[Swipe]

Arsenal have sold off quite a few players at the top of their game over the years and stayed strong.

 

Wenger is possible the most shrewd buyer in the transfer market though.

 

They're far weaker than in the days of Vieira, Pires, Henry etc.

[Buzz]

They're far weaker than in the days of Vieira, Pires, Henry etc.

Are they weaker or has the league got a lot stronger with Chelsea, Man City et'al. I think it is a bit of both.

[Knox_Harrington]

Are they weaker or has the league got a lot stronger with Chelsea, Man City et'al. I think it is a bit of both.

The summer Benitez arrived Arsenal had just gone a season unbeaten. Since then they haven't won a thing, have had transfer fees and wages combined costs similar to ours and this is their biggest season.

 

The Arsenal Invincibles side would f***ing boss this league this season.

[Rimbeux]

They're far weaker than in the days of Vieira, Pires, Henry etc.

 

 

Much of which has been a necessary rebuilding whilst running to tight budget as they built a stadium. The issue they have is that the necessity has become an obsession that may be holding them back now they have the income and cash to go harder. Of course they could be completely vindicated in a few weeks.

[épieur]

They're far weaker than in the days of Vieira, Pires, Henry etc.

look at the players they sold to build that side though. In continous seasons they got rid of Wright, then Anelka then Overmars & Petit. Over the next few seasons they also let Adams and Seaman go.

 

 

Replaced by the likes of Henry, Pires, Fabregas, Campbell whilst bringing in players like Cole, Toure to compliment the world class players already there (Vieira and Bergkamp).

 

 

[épieur]

The summer Benitez arrived Arsenal had just gone a season unbeaten. Since then they haven't won a thing, have had transfer fees and wages combined costs similar to ours and this is their biggest season.

 

The Arsenal Invincibles side would f***ing boss this league this season.

The level required to win the league from 04 to 09 was ridiculously high. The lowest point tally of any champion in that period was 87 points and the runner-up also had point tallies in the 80s every season except Arsenal's 'invincible' one where Chelsea finished on 79. Several of those seasons even third place had point tallies in the 80s.

 

 

Arsenal and Chelsea all broke records to win the title from 04-06.

 

In comparison United won the league in 97 with 75 points, Arsenal the year after with 78, united again the year after with 79.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2011 by epieur

[Swipe]

look at the players they sold to build that side though. In continous seasons they got rid of Wright, then Anelka then Overmars & Petit. Over the next few seasons they also let Adams and Seaman go.

 

 

Replaced by the likes of Henry, Pires, Fabregas, Campbell whilst bringing in players like Cole, Toure to compliment the world class players already there (Vieira and Bergkamp).

 

Yeah but the point is they're not as strong now. He didn't adequately replace the last group of really powerful players he had.

 

Hopefully they win the league but it's not a particulary powerful team now.

[épieur]

Yeah but the point is they're not as strong now. He didn't adequately replace the last group of really powerful players he had.

 

Hopefully they win the league but it's not a particulary powerful team now.

I don't think it's a valid point in terms of the OP. They are not as strong now because Wenger's transfer strategy to build the current team is different from back then. He is far more focused on buying young and unproven and furthermore giving time and space in the team for these 'youngsters' to develop.

 

 

The question was if a team has come back stronger from an exodus similar to ours. Arsenal has gone through it and came back a stronger outfit thanks to Wenger's purchases.

 

So yes, it can be done.

 

 

[Swipe]

I don't think it's a valid point in terms of the OP. They are not as strong now because Wenger's transfer strategy to build the current team is different from back then. He is far more focused on buying young and unproven and furthermore giving time and space in the team for these 'youngsters' to develop.

 

 

The question was if a team has come back stronger from an exodus similar to ours. Arsenal has gone through it and came back a stronger outfit thanks to Wenger's purchases.

 

So yes, it can be done.

 

When has it been done?

 

I don't think Arsenal have ever had a mass exodus anyway. Wenger moved on players at different intervals.

[épieur]

When has it been done?

 

I don't think Arsenal have ever had a mass exodus anyway. Wenger moved on players at different intervals.

 

Our list of "world class players"

 

2008 Reina Mascherano Alonso Gerrard Torres

2009 Reina Gerrard Masch Torres

2010 Reina Gerrard Torres

2011 Gerrard (?)

 

 

Arsenal:

 

1999: Seaman, Adams, Vieria, Petit, Overmas, Anelka*.

 

Anelka left that summer, next summer Overmars and Petit, two years later Adams was gone followed by Seaman the following season. That's pretty hefty.

 

The main difference to ours is that Wenger could keep up the pace with replacements. We dudded on Aquilani and Johnson to replace Alonso, didn't replace Mascherano (well, we bought Poulsen....). Wenger signed Henry, Pires, Campbell, Fabregas and Toure.

 

 

[Stevie H]

When has it been done?

 

I don't think Arsenal have ever had a mass exodus anyway. Wenger moved on players at different intervals.

it's about how you manage the turnover. ferguson has consistently sold off some of his best or most important players at united and kept them strong at the same time.

 

i think in selling torres we've actually strengthened up front with suarez and carroll. mascherano and more significantly alonso we've not adequately replaced yet. reina, good as he is, is replaceable though.

[Swipe]

Arsenal:

 

1999: Seaman, Adams, Vieria, Petit, Overmas, Anelka*.

 

Anelka left that summer, next summer Overmars and Petit, two years later Adams was gone followed by Seaman the following season. That's pretty hefty.

 

The main difference to ours is that Wenger could keep up the pace with replacements. We dudded on Aquilani and Johnson to replace Alonso, didn't replace Mascherano (well, we bought Poulsen....). Wenger signed Henry, Pires, Campbell, Fabregas and Toure.

 

That's a pretty staggered list of departures, IMO.

 

But i agree - its how you replace them. Wenger has done it with differing levels of success.

 

We still haven't got anywhere near replacing Xabi. Its still killing us.

[épieur]

it's about how you manage the turnover. ferguson has consistently sold off some of his best or most important players at united and kept them strong at the same time.

 

i think in selling torres we've actually strengthened up front with suarez and carroll. mascherano and more significantly alonso we've not adequately replaced yet. reina, good as he is, is replaceable though.

What has happened this january and will happen this summer is absolutely f***ing pivotal for this club. We've allowed our best players to seeve out for 18 months now, going on 24 and have just about survived (if we can call it that) on the fact that we still had more world class players to lose left. Well Reina is the last of the bunch and if we want to get back up there we simply don't have time left for more f***ups.

 

 

Suarez and Carroll HAVE to come good. We HAVE to sign at least one potentially world class midfielder or creative player who will come good in the summer, we HAVE to supplement this with at least one other top class player in defense or midfield.

 

It's possible if the money is there and I say this in the light of the fact that our ambition for the summer should be to make sign a potentially world class creative player and midfielder, another top class creative player a world class centreback and a top class fullback. So there's room for some duds in there too. It's still a f***ing big ask, mind.

 

 

 

We still haven't got anywhere near replacing Xabi. Its still killing us.

Xabi's importance to us was exaggerated due to deficiencies elsewhere in the side. We simply shouldn't have suffered so much from him leaving as we did. Part of it is that the players weren't good enough to f***ing pass the ball around well without him. But I think another part of it was that we were simply coached too much into relying on him, the players were simply not geared to life without him.

 

We don't need a xabi replacement as much as we need a team that can get by without a xabi.

 

 

[Stevie H]

What has happened this january and will happen this summer is absolutely f***ing pivotal for this club. We've allowed our best players to seeve out for 18 months now, going on 24 and have just about survived (if we can call it that) on the fact that we still had more world class players to lose left. Well Reina is the last of the bunch and if we want to get back up there we simply don't have time left for more f***ups.

 

 

Suarez and Carroll HAVE to come good. We HAVE to sign at least one potentially world class midfielder or creative player who will come good in the summer, we HAVE to supplement this with at least one other top class player in defense or midfield.

 

It's possible if the money is there and I say this in the light of the fact that our ambition for the summer should be to make sign a potentially world class creative player and midfielder, another top class creative player a world class centreback and a top class fullback. So there's room for some duds in there too. It's still a f***ing big ask, mind.

 

we're back at square one, and the sooner people get their heads around that the better. we need a summer this summer like houllier's first, where we sign hyypia, henchoz and hamann.

 

suarez and carroll will come good, i've no doubt of that. but we then need to sign four, five or six players of high potential who can grow into top players as alonso, mascherano, torres and reina did under benitez and as hyypia, hamann, henchoz etc did under houllier.

 

it's all about potential now, we're not going to be signing the established 'world class' stars. commoli earns his bread this summer.

[Swipe]

Xabi's importance was exaggerated? Couldn't disagree more.

 

We've been powder puff without him. We have no-one to dictate the rhythm and pace of the game, we don't have anyone who can pass as well as him, we don't have anyone who can protect the back four like he could.

 

We didn't have to replace him with another version of Xabi. We just needed a really good central midfielder to come in and boss our midfield. We're still waiting for it.

[Stevie H]

Xabi's importance to us was exaggerated due to deficiencies elsewhere in the side.

that's unfair. he became at truly world class player with us who ran matches on his own and if anything simply got the best out of anyone who happened to be in the same side as him.

[Frosty Jack]

We've allowed our best players to seeve out for 18 months now, going on 24 and have just about survived (if we can call it that) on the fact that we still had more world class players to lose left.

 

bizarre that some were denying that was happening even a year ago.

Edited March 5, 2011 by Wyndham Lewis