Meireles and Lucas v Mascherano and Alonso

[Ombudsam]

Surely that's the problem right there or at least the most demonstrative point of where it has gone wrong.

 

We're literally not as good. We were f*cking fantastic and now we're alright.

[épieur]

It's a tall order to expect us to find one, as there are few going around and they are in demand, but if we could sign just one fantastic player for central midfield it would make a whole world of difference.

 

Lucas, and to a lesser extent Meireless, are both good players whom I think would not look out of place in a top side. But they can't lead and lift such a side. We need someone in there who will make the rest of the midfield look better.

 

Maybe that Belgian lad everyone's been talking about. Have we even been linked with him since Commoli came in?

 

 

[Falconhoof]

Eden Hazard (kenny went to watch him at Lille in October, but heard nothing since then) and Yann M'Vila might be good additions to the midfield.

[Elm0]

A lot of the problems that people think are present are due to lack of memory on certain issues. Neither Mascherano or Alonso arrived at Liverpool as the players they left. If anything Alonso was a slight gamble given his largely unproven nature despite his good performances for Real Sociedad. Of course, the signs pointed to him turning into a quality player, as was proved true,but at the time that was speculation and it could have gone wrong. Mascherano was obviously a slightly different position.

 

The two listed by the OP arent terrible, even in comparision. The problem is theyre completely different styles of players. Alonso and Mascherano both were more defensive minded whereas the current two are less defensive (dont want to say theyre more attacking as theyre both more box to box than anything). This obviously creates issues as it impedes the ability to play a similar system to the previous because Lucas and Meireles simply arent up to the defensive standard of those two, particularly mascherano.

 

Either one of Lucas or Meireles in the team would be fine, just need someone to come in and boss the defensive side of it like Mascherano did. Alonso was pretty much a one off and I really dont see us getting anyone close to his quality on the ball, so a small adjustment in playing style is preferable.

[Ombudsam]

A lot of the problems that people think are present are due to lack of memory on certain issues. Neither Mascherano or Alonso arrived at Liverpool as the players they left. If anything Alonso was a slight gamble given his largely unproven nature despite his good performances for Real Sociedad. Of course, the signs pointed to him turning into a quality player, as was proved true,but at the time that was speculation and it could have gone wrong. Mascherano was obviously a slightly different position.

 

The two listed by the OP arent terrible, even in comparision. The problem is theyre completely different styles of players. Alonso and Mascherano both were more defensive minded whereas the current two are less defensive (dont want to say theyre more attacking as theyre both more box to box than anything). This obviously creates issues as it impedes the ability to play a similar system to the previous because Lucas and Meireles simply arent up to the defensive standard of those two, particularly mascherano.

 

Either one of Lucas or Meireles in the team would be fine, just need someone to come in and boss the defensive side of it like Mascherano did. Alonso was pretty much a one off and I really dont see us getting anyone close to his quality on the ball, so a small adjustment in playing style is preferable.

 

The two we've got now are deffo less good at football than the two we we used to have. By a bit as well.

 

Alonso looked boss fromhis debut when he was overhitting passes v Bolton. Looked like he wanted to be good.

[Frosty Jack]

It's unfair to judge Meireles coming straight into this clusterf*** but realistically he's been underwhelming even before injury.

Lucas's improvement was clear to most.

 

Top and bottom is, we shouldn't have allowed Mascherano or Aquilani to leave without adequate replacement, we know why that happened.

 

Lucas and Meireles with Gerrard, Aquilani and Maxi, Torres up top would be a great midfield & attack.

Add Suarez into that mix and things don't look so bad do they?

 

The main problem is confidence and fitness, the legacy of the Roy era.

[Jarg Armani]

We used to be ace, now we're mediocre

thankyou very much gillett and hicks

 

(winter wonderland)

[Metro]

A lot of the problems that people think are present are due to lack of memory on certain issues. Neither Mascherano or Alonso arrived at Liverpool as the players they left. If anything Alonso was a slight gamble given his largely unproven nature despite his good performances for Real Sociedad. Of course, the signs pointed to him turning into a quality player, as was proved true,but at the time that was speculation and it could have gone wrong. Mascherano was obviously a slightly different position.

 

The two listed by the OP arent terrible, even in comparision. The problem is theyre completely different styles of players. Alonso and Mascherano both were more defensive minded whereas the current two are less defensive (dont want to say theyre more attacking as theyre both more box to box than anything). This obviously creates issues as it impedes the ability to play a similar system to the previous because Lucas and Meireles simply arent up to the defensive standard of those two, particularly mascherano.

 

Either one of Lucas or Meireles in the team would be fine, just need someone to come in and boss the defensive side of it like Mascherano did. Alonso was pretty much a one off and I really dont see us getting anyone close to his quality on the ball, so a small adjustment in playing style is preferable.

 

Sorry, but that is rubbish.

[Elm0]

which part would that be? did alonso and mascherano not leave the club as better players? would one of lucas and meireles not be fine in CM with a masch type player alongside? are they really terrible? are they not just a different style of player to those who left?

 

please. do share,

[Stevie H]

We used to be ace, now we're mediocre

thankyou very much gillett and hicks

 

(winter wonderland)

everything, just everything, goes back to the tipping point of post-athens.

[Falconhoof]

which part would that be? did alonso and mascherano not leave the club as better players? would one of lucas and meireles not be fine in CM with a masch type player alongside? are they really terrible? are they not just a different style of player to those who left?

 

please. do share,

 

which masch type player? Lucas and Mascherano wasn't very good last year. It was a fairly stale combination, neither can create. I'm not sure we've seen much creativity or drive from Meireles yet.

 

Our wings are s**** too.

 

We need to spend a lot of money.

[Stevie H]

We need to spend a lot of money.

we really do. it's like when wenger came to arsenal and signed vieira and petit. we need to sign two lads who will boss it for five years, and for bargain fees. which in hindsight alonso and mascherano kind of were.

[Falconhoof]

Alonso was a f***ing steal. we've all been hoping that Meireles would turn out to be something simmilar but he's not. Not only a different type of midfielder but not as good. It won't do, Fenway need to know that they have bought a weak squad that will stay down there among the also rans unless there is the grand opening of the warchest that they carefully calculated when they were bidding for the club.

I really hope they were thinking, we got this club at a bargain price which is great news because we can really throw some good money into the player account and upgrade right across the board.

January isn't a good window for transfers ? It has to be. they have to make it work.

[David Hodgson]

We used to be ace, now we're mediocre

thankyou very much gillett and hicks

 

(winter wonderland)

 

Simply put, but a salutary reminder. Those c*nts have taken a lot of the joy out of my existence. Ruined a significant chunk of my life.

[Elm0]

which masch type player? Lucas and Mascherano wasn't very good last year. It was a fairly stale combination, neither can create. I'm not sure we've seen much creativity or drive from Meireles yet.

 

Our wings are s**** too.

 

We need to spend a lot of money.

 

a masch type player as in someone whos number one priority is to protect the back four and cover gaps. we've nothing like that at the club now.

 

Lucas last season was still restricted by Rafa's tactics. There were glimpses of his true self towards the end of last season and given his improvements this season I do think hed work fine if he was allowed to play further forward. Meireles is good enough as well, hes just hit a run of poor form - lest we forget roy didnt really know what he was doing with him either. he'llhave best yet to come.

[fred milne]

Alonso was the key. He had/has a different level of ability to Lucas and Meireles - Mascherano too for that matter.

[Ombudsam]

Alonso was the key. He had/has a different level of ability to Lucas and Meireles - Mascherano too for that matter.

 

I think as a pair though they were different gravy to these. Individually as well.

 

Lucas has come on mind. not wishing for anyone to think that I'm denigrating his contribution

[Zoob]

Mascherano was a big loss, but nothing compared to how much the loss of Alonso affected us.

 

Problem is that there just aren't many players - let alone players available / players that we could afford - that are anything like Alonso.

[Swipe]

Mascherano was a big loss, but nothing compared to how much the loss of Alonso affected us.

 

Problem is that there just aren't many players - let alone players available / players that we could afford - that are anything like Alonso.

 

Is right. It's gonna take a really good player before we recover from his loss.

[Gerrardrules]

You could play anyone (except Poulsen of course) next to Alonso and it would work (Momo, Masch, Gerrard, Lucas, Didi).

Problem is, if you take Alonso away then you cant play anyone next to who is playing.

[growler]

It took arsenal and the mancs and real at least one to two seasons to recover from viera keane and makelele leaving. We lost two players of that ilk in successive summers.

[Metro]

Mascherano was a big loss, but nothing compared to how much the loss of Alonso affected us.

 

Problem is that there just aren't many players - let alone players available / players that we could afford - that are anything like Alonso.

 

 

Exactly. Frankly, our decline was sparked by Alonso being allowed to leave. Then it was compounded by Mascher wanting away. Apart from Gerrard, Alonso was streets ahead of any other player in the squad in the early days of Benitez. We were fine until Benitez tried to bring Barry into the club in Alonso's position. Then it started going pear-shaped.

[sangria]

which masch type player? Lucas and Mascherano wasn't very good last year. It was a fairly stale combination, neither can create. I'm not sure we've seen much creativity or drive from Meireles yet.

 

Our wings are s**** too.

 

We need to spend a lot of money.

 

Lucas and Mascherano weren't the problem. That pair would guarantee at least 50% of the midfield against any other midfield in the world, and would reliably recirculate the ball. The problem was the players they were moving it to. The theme of the side desperately needed at least one wing which could retain possession for long enough for the team to move up. An in-form Riera plus Insua on the left was the key to some excellent football in the early season. With a couple of good flankers up front, the theme of the side would blossom even beyond the system with Alonso in the side. With the ball being kept in the opponents half and ideally third, Lucas and Mascherano patrolling the area in front of their defence and separating their defence from their attack, thus reducing them to long ball counters, and a defence and a sweeper keeper who were comfortable with clearing the dribs and drabs that come their way. Lucas and Mascherano weren't there primarily to create. They were there to give the rest of the team time to create, by denying this to the opposition.

 

Just that addition of one winger in the summer of 2009 would have allowed this to be played. And funnily enough, all reports say that this was what Benitez had planned to sign, before the funds were pulled from him by H&G courtesy of Purslow.

[_00_deathscar]

Lucas and Mascherano remind me of a hypothetical pairing of Fletcher and (Roy) Keane in midfield.

 

Theoretically, it could work - if you surrounded them with better players. Fantastic players, in fact.

[sangria]

Lucas and Mascherano remind me of a hypothetical pairing of Fletcher and (Roy) Keane in midfield.

 

Theoretically, it could work - if you surrounded them with better players. Fantastic players, in fact.

 

They did work in the early part of the season, until injuries shattered the squad and form. I said the key player in the team, given the personnel available, was Riera. Not the stars usually held up as the fans' favourites, but Riera. His width, comfort on the ball, and proven ability to link with Insua, were the key to retaining possession in attack, thus allowing the rest of the team to take up their positions. He wasn't perfect, and any other winger with the same essential qualities could have done the same job, but that job needed to be done, That it wasn't done was the reason why the season fell apart. Relatively speaking of course. Purslow's summer has shown how a season can really fall apart.