Get a f'cking grip on reality !

[Rory Fitzgerald]

1. We we're definitely gonna win the league after we beat Derby.

 

2. After the internatioanal break we lost Alonso and Agger.

 

3. We 'rested' Torres for the away game vs Pompey and at home for Birmingham and we drew them 0-0. After that, he got an involuntary rest.

 

4. Playing away at the start of the season used to be a huge handicap for us. This season we have 4 wins and 2 draws. Lets be honest, its easier to rectify home form than away form.

 

5. We are unbeaten in the league, going through a bad patch (terminal according to some, and only 6pts behind Arsenal.

 

Consequence

The replacement we have for Agger is a slower player that is not as comfortable on the ball as Agger. For Alonso, its either Momo or Mascherano - great for games against Barca, Man Utd, Chelsea etc but wont create jack in all honesty. Whilst Torres, well, we all know what he offers and what the other strikers dont.

We have lost a ball playing center back, our fulcrum in midfield and a world class talent upfront that has pace, skill, strenght, work rate, intelligence and sharpness.

 

=> Its amazing how f'cking fickle some people are in knocking the 'unbeaten in the league' stat ! We have eeked out points in games we would have lost last season. Lets get our 3 crucial players back in the team and see what happens. Rafa's team are normally better towards the end of the season. Arsenal are in a rich vein, we are poor, they have had f'ck all injuries, both us, Chelsea and Utd have lost key players this season - Utd and Chelsea have lost games, we havent.

 

Get these players back, the team will perform better with these guys in it, no f'cking doubt ! We'll take care of Fulham next week at home then the 3 boys should be back given the international break. We are 6pts behind, unbeaten, excellent away form.

 

This is the best position we have been in under Rafa in the league and achieved with key players out. Lets be positive and f'cking kick on when the 3 lads come back !

 

I am delighted, but thats just me, playing piss poor with injuries and still unbeaten and in the hunt !, come on

Edited November 4, 2007 by Rory Fitzgerald

[Gunga Din]

i'd love to agree. but i dont.

[Kahnee]

i'd love to agree. but i dont.

 

Which bit don't you agree with? The six points behind, or the excellent away form?

Edited November 4, 2007 by Kahnee

[Rory Fitzgerald]

i'd love to agree. but i dont.

 

Why ?

 

If you dont have faith in the team with Agger, Alonso and Torres back and the team being at full strenght would it be right to assume that your questions run deeper than injuries and form and to the manager ?

[Sion]

Why ?

 

If you dont have faith in the team with Agger, Alonso and Torres back and the team being at full strenght would it be right to assume that your questions run deeper than injuries and form and to the manager ?

 

If injuries to 3 first team players can decimate our team and whole outlook of a game, forcing us to play disjointed, dull, negative, long ball football we have serious problems. What happened to our Titanic-like unsinkable squad, with all it's brilliant depth? 3 players out and we go from title challengers to mid-table also-rans? something's clearly not right there.

[Gunga Din]

Why ?

 

If you dont have faith in the team with Agger, Alonso and Torres back and the team being at full strenght would it be right to assume that your questions run deeper than injuries and form and to the manager ?

 

when Agger, Torres and Alosno are all fit, there is still no guarantee they'll play. the entire team looks sluggish, and devoid of ideas, rotated out of form with no set formation or personnel. i have doubts as to whether the manager can take us to the title. he has shown nothing so far to suggest he can, and i fear another season 20 points adrift of the winners, and the way we have played this season has done nothing to make me think otherwise.

[Coyler]

when Agger, Torres and Alosno are all fit, there is still no guarantee they'll play.

You don't think they'll play in the massive majority of games when they come back?

[Guest Jude]

The most important part of any team is the spine that runs down the middle and the spine of our team has been raked by injuries this season.

As Rory says when these players are back our team will no doubt perform better.

 

Six points behind the leaders with 27 games left is no great mountain to climb.

[Gunga Din]

You don't think they'll play in the massive majority of games when they come back?

 

who knows. Agger probably will, wouldnt be sure about the other two

Edited November 4, 2007 by big wayne

[Rory Fitzgerald]

If injuries to 3 first team players can decimate our team and whole outlook of a game, forcing us to play disjointed, dull, negative, long ball football we have serious problems. What happened to our Titanic-like unsinkable squad, with all it's brilliant depth? 3 players out and we go from title challengers to mid-table also-rans? something's clearly not right there.

 

 

Utd and Chelsea have both had relatively poor starts to the season, Chelsea have lost 2, drawn 3 and sacked their manager ! whilst Utd have lost 1 and drawn 3 from 12 games and lucky to scrap some 1-0 wins. In that time both teams were missing players like Terry, Carvalho, Lampard, Drogba, Ronaldo, Rooney and Scholes.

 

No team is immune from losing key players. Arsenal have been blessed so far. Experience tells you that there is a very good chance that will change.

[Sion]

Six points behind the leaders with 27 games left is no great mountain to climb.

 

except that gap only looks like it'll grow, not close. I think Arsenal will falter, they are becoming very overhyped, but United look in excellent form, can you see them dropping points willy-nilly like we are doing? no. We'll be more than double figures behind 1st by Xmas IMO.

[blago]

I think there is little doubt we will play better with those 3 players back. In all honesty we shouldn't have been playing so poorly without them. There definitely seems to be a lack of belief in the squad which is effecting our off the ball movement. Kewell was a breath of fresh air when he came on and if he manages to stay fit for an extended period we could really use his skill and composure on the left.

 

We have been unlucky so far with injuries and hopefully that will change. We can play much better than what we have been playing and we are not out of sight yet in the league.

[Falconhoof]

You don't think they'll play in the massive majority of games when they come back?

Rafa has said all along that his idea is to rotate to protect players for the end of the season.

In the summer when we were buying players for the squad, it was 4 strikers, 4 good options and the opportunity to rotate and rest Torres. Same with Alonso, you only have to look at the number of midfielders we've built into the squad to worry at the planning that has left us so reliant on that one midfield player. If the plan was to play Alonso in 'the massive majority of games' and presumably you'd say the same about the captain, then that leaves Mascherano, Sissoko, Lucas, Benayoun, Pennant, Kewell, Leto and babel for the other 2/3 midfield places.

[IgPig]

This rotation thing is daft now.

 

Players like Agger, Alonso and Torres will play most games.

[Ronnie Whelan]

Loosing Agger, Alonso & Torres is a huge blow to the sqaud, but we should be able to cope and certainly perform better than we have been.

 

 

Rafa is tactically an excellent coach, but sometimes i think he might be slightly overcomplicating things. IMO football is a simple game and more often than not decisions are made for you. For instance, if certain players are not performing then they should not start. JAR has been f***ing awful so far this season, Arbeloa should start in his stead. Dirk, for all his other qualities, can not lead the line in a 4-4-1-1 formation, Crouch can. If you are going to play that formation then Crouchy should start. When 40 minutes passes in a match and you dont have one single shot on goal, you need to look at the formation. SG should have moved out to the right, Benny on the left and move Babel up front.

 

Rafa spends a lot of time analysing the opposition and sets out the team he thinks will firstly nullify the opposition and secondly cause them problems from an attacking sense. If plan A doesnt work, I personally think he is too slow to change to plan B. Leaving Crouch on the bench until the 72nd minute is an example of this.

[Guz]

when Agger, Torres and Alosno are all fit, there is still no guarantee they'll play. the entire team looks sluggish, and devoid of ideas, rotated out of form with no set formation or personnel. i have doubts as to whether the manager can take us to the title. he has shown nothing so far to suggest he can, and i fear another season 20 points adrift of the winners, and the way we have played this season has done nothing to make me think otherwise.

 

I agree with some of your general sentiment about concerns in the way we are playing. Sometimes we look like a complete shambles and are definitley still finding our feet. But in terms of the bit in bold, well we have the best away record and points tally at this stage of the season since Rafa was appointed. We'd already lost 4 times last season by this stage. It's not pretty, it's not easy but we're still clinging on and edging forward as far as I'm concerned.

[RedBilledChough]

i'd love to agree.

Do you know, I doubt that you would. You seem to enjoy wallowing in that deep pit of despair you've been digging for yourself the last 6 weeks or so. Your relentless and boundless negativity is probably all that's keeping you going.

 

For what it's worth, I agree with Rory. Any team simultaneously deprived of its best players in central defence, central midfield and at centre forward would struggle, whatever the depth of its squad. We will improve when they're back, though I don't expect us to win the league now, any more than I did at the start of the season.

[Rory Fitzgerald]

Loosing Agger, Alonso & Torres is a huge blow to the sqaud, but we should be able to cope and certainly perform better than we have been.

Rafa is tactically an excellent coach, but sometimes i think he might be slightly overcomplicating things. IMO football is a simple game and more often than not decisions are made for you. For instance, if certain players are not performing then they should not start. JAR has been f***ing awful so far this season, Arbeloa should start in his stead. Dirk, for all his other qualities, can not lead the line in a 4-4-1-1 formation, Crouch can. If you are going to play that formation then Crouchy should start. When 40 minutes passes in a match and you dont have one single shot on goal, you need to look at the formation. SG should have moved out to the right, Benny on the left and move Babel up front.

 

Rafa spends a lot of time analysing the opposition and sets out the team he thinks will firstly nullify the opposition and secondly cause them problems from an attacking sense. If plan A doesnt work, I personally think he is too slow to change to plan B. Leaving Crouch on the bench until the 72nd minute is an example of this.

 

I can agree on Crouch and you are preaching to the converted about Riise. As for tactics, I think he can over complicate things but to be honest we deserve credit for not letting Blackburn play the way they can and he deserves some credit especially considering things changed our way in the 2nd half. Unfortunately we didnt take our chances - if criticism is to be laid at Rafa's door then the lack of a viable alternative to Torres has to be it.

[_00_deathscar]

Re: Arbeloa - surely he's not fully fit yet, or else he'd be playing, as he has done in all the games he's been fit to play.

[Mike S]

I agree with what hansen said last night: we're not great but we're improving, and we're still very much in it.

[Magic8Ball]

1. We we're definitely gonna win the league after we beat Derby.

 

2. After the internatioanal break we lost Alonso and Agger.

 

3. We 'rested' Torres for the away game vs Pompey and at home for Birmingham and we drew them 0-0. After that, he got an involuntary rest.

 

4. Playing away at the start of the season used to be a huge handicap for us. This season we have 4 wins and 2 draws. Lets be honest, its easier to rectify home form than away form.

 

5. We are unbeaten in the league, going through a bad patch (terminal according to some, and only 6pts behind Arsenal.

 

Consequence

The replacement we have for Agger is a slower player that is not as comfortable on the ball as Agger. For Alonso, its either Momo or Mascherano - great for games against Barca, Man Utd, Chelsea etc but wont create jack in all honesty. Whilst Torres, well, we all know what he offers and what the other strikers dont.

We have lost a ball playing center back, our fulcrum in midfield and a world class talent upfront that has pace, skill, strenght, work rate, intelligence and sharpness.

 

=> Its amazing how f'cking fickle some people are in knocking the 'unbeaten in the league' stat ! We have eeked out points in games we would have lost last season. Lets get our 3 crucial players back in the team and see what happens. Rafa's team are normally better towards the end of the season. Arsenal are in a rich vein, we are poor, they have had f'ck all injuries, both us, Chelsea and Utd have lost key players this season - Utd and Chelsea have lost games, we havent.

 

Get these players back, the team will perform better with these guys in it, no f'cking doubt ! We'll take care of Fulham next week at home then the 3 boys should be back given the international break. We are 6pts behind, unbeaten, excellent away form.

 

This is the best position we have been in under Rafa in the league and achieved with key players out. Lets be positive and f'cking kick on when the 3 lads come back !

 

I am delighted, but thats just me, playing piss poor with injuries and still unbeaten and in the hunt !, come on

You dont have to be positive you can be realistic

 

Rafa is clearly a good manager, but the injuries have shown up gaps in his thinking, or at least flaws

 

Rafa like rotation ( I have nothing against that) but rotation requires 2 important things:

1- the person/s being rotated are replaced by players of at least equal quality

2- the players know how to play with the players being introduced

 

the latter point becomes easier when you have a format to your rotation and the players have been around each other long enough.

There are 2 way you can rotate your squad:

1 - Like for like ie DM for DM - This works best when you have a fixed style of play see Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea for that

2 - Different style players for each position - this provides more variety but it harder MUCH MUCH harder to implement. The players have to know the styles of play, what's expected and the players being rotated in have to be of QUALITY to make it work.

 

 

Here are our problems

 

1 We dont have enough players of quality in the attacking areas ( probably not enough players of quality full stop)

2 Rafa does not have a fixed style of playing, this makes it harder for the players to adapt to rotation formation changes etc

3 The injuries are to key players, who ironically cannot be rotated they're that key ( Agger, Alonso, Torres)

4 We dont go out to attack teams and force them into errors, we sit back and wait for mistakes - its a defensive mentality

 

A Suggested Solution

 

I think Rafa needs to look at replacing some players with BETTER QUALITY - I'm sure we can sell Carson, Crouch, Momo, Kuyt and not have it affect us more that we're already affected, that could be 30-40M worth of sales and could bring in 2-3 TOP QUALITY ATTACKING PLAYERS

 

Then ( for the time being ) Rafa should pick a formation say 4231 and pretty much stick with that for this season, so the players know where they are and what they have to do.

Edited November 4, 2007 by Magic8Ball

[yellow jumper]

we can get much better, anyone who's seen us over three years should know that. six point behind the leaders going into the second half of the season gives us a sniff. i didn't see us winning the league this year, but there's still hope of a challenge if we can get to january with the same defecit.

 

i don't think 8 points from blackburn, everton, portsmouth and villa (four of the tougher aways, after united, chelsea and arsenal) is a disgrace. we need to start playing like we can at home (as we did against chelsea, for example), to make those scrappy away wins and draws look the decent results they are.

[Knox_Harrington]

we can get much better, anyone who's seen us over three years should know that. six point behind the leaders going into the second half of the season gives us a sniff. i didn't see us winning the league this year, but there's still hope of a challenge if we can get to january with the same defecit.

 

i don't think 8 points from blackburn, everton, portsmouth and villa (four of the tougher aways, after united, chelsea and arsenal) is a disgrace. we need to start playing like we can at home (as we did against chelsea, for example), to make those scrappy away wins and draws look the decent results they are.

In theory I agree with that. What's frustrating is certain decisions regarding team selection that are being made.

[Rory Fitzgerald]

1 We dont have enough players of quality in the attacking areas ( probably not enough players of quality full stop)

 

I think Rafa needs to look at replacing some players with BETTER QUALITY - I'm sure we can sell Carson, Crouch, Momo, Kuyt and not have it affect us more that we're already affected, that could be 30-40M worth of sales and could bring in 2-3 TOP QUALITY ATTACKING PLAYERS

 

I agree on all of that, Kuyt and Voronin are good foils for Torres if we can also pose a threat from midfield, if not then we need 2 good and threatening attackers.

 

I remember saying towards the end of GH's reign and Heskey's poor strike rate after his good season and a half that we dont need a worker-striker in Heskey because GH's 2 banks of 4 did the hard work. If you have 2 banks of 4 grafters then you need 2 sharp strikers.

 

You can afford to have a Kuyt or Crouch leading the line if your players coming from deep are of the quality of Rooney, Gerrard, Ronaldo etc. At this stage I dont think we have immense potency in our midfield so the strikers should take up that slack, Torres does- but does anyone else.

[RafaShanks]

This whole injury excuse is feckin b******s.

 

With the players that Rafa has at his disposal we should have more points on the board/playing better period.

 

Why not focus on our strengths instead of worrying about the feckin opposition???

 

Why the need for Momo and Masch in the centre yesterday and only one up front? Why give the intiative to the opposition (which happened in the first half) and give the impression that we fear them???

 

We looked like a completely different team when Kewell and Crouchy came on and we were more positive.

 

If we lose and have a f***in go then fair enough, but to wait 20 minutes from the end when when we are needing a goal to start playing attacking expansive football is simply not good enough.