JRC

I tried to star an ironic boo at the end, but realise that irony can have a fragile quality

When he scored against West Brom, there was a noticable pause as all the players waited for the big piley-on, but no-one else really took the role on.

Clemence effectively invented the Goalkeeper as covering defender; he redefined the role. F365 had a ranking of current Prem goalies this week, put Reina second to Jaaskaleinen, mainly becasue of his performance at Hull - but called it right compared to Cech, Friedel etc. - and fwiw, explicitly mentioned the Golden Gloves as evidence.

Even worse, they showed Figure Skating on Sportsnight instead

In terms of representations of Football fandom, in second place to Kes is probably the Likely Lads classic 'trying to avoid the score before Sportsnight with Coleman' episode, as true a piece of writing about what it means to be a fan (or meant in those days of recorded highlights) as I can recall. And Bob and Terry's nemesis? The self-same Mr Glover, of course. Iirc, he wasn't a fan - Rugby League and Wrestling (he was a pro) were his bag.

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Agreed. One of the players actively trying to make things happen, all too often there was no movement, or inadequate movement, up front, and a number of times he looked out wide for his trademark pass, but there was no-one there. Although I have to admit his shooting was generally poor on Monday, as it was against Fulham, iirc, at least he was getting into - or at best, near to - shooting positions, which hasn't always been the case in the past year or so.

Actually, I'm thinking that by way of consolation. I think as a team we're more likely to perform better in a straight neck and neck struggle than leading from the front. Sad to say, Utd can win it whichever way - massive lead, neck and neck or coming from behind. I wouldn't say no to being 5 points ahead, of course, but just think recently we've more often shown that hang-on-for-grim-death-against-the-odds-resilience, whether in CL campaigns or the treble year run-in, whilst in 2001-2, we succumbed to premature expectation somewhat when we went top in October.

Unfortunately it does seem to be transferring to the match though. What was once an Article of Faith - you support whoever is out there in a Red shirt while the game is on - seems to be long gone. Fwiw, the main offenders round me are older, scouse STH, who don't ever sing and who virtually never find anything good to say about anyone; although the very worst is undoubtedly the bull-headed loudmouth whose indignation and bucolic fury hits fever pitch when the team is announced and cranks up from there on. He clearly thinks we are privileged to hear his brand of intelligent and witty sarcasm and insightful football knowledge. He has a friend about 7 rows in front who he regularly engages in 'conversation' when he takes a rest from just generally issuing abuse. My lad and I make our point by singing and ostentatiously clapping and commending his current bete(s) noir, but I doubt he even notices. There's definitely some ego thing going on with him - angrier, louder, sound of own voice and all that. What IS clear is that the specifics of negativity very quickly make their way from the fora to the match going moaner, and it's always in that direction. As soon as a negative cliche is aired on here, I can pretty well guarantee I'll hear the miserabilists behind me raising it like its pearls of their own wisdom. Maybe I'm wrong, but it feels like they trawl through the negative posts and make mental notes to use this argument or that next time they are at the match. Mind you, if they didn't read the forum, how would they know who the current top scapegoat is? Some ignorant people seem to still think it's Kuyt! How last season are they!

There wasn't a player in Red out there last night who didn't make at least one schoolboy ricket, and I've never seen a team beat so many of our players so often when one-on-one - and even one-on-two-or-three - with the ball at their feet. At least he had a few positively memorable incidents - the block, a tackle, getting forward well - instead of unremittingly negative ones. Did Lucas get a mild cheer when he warmed up as well, and a sympathetic smattering of applause when he came on? Seemed so to me.

They actually beat Villa as well. But Utd stuffed them 5-0 at home, so we must be cr*p. Play the youngsters instead.

I agree, although I also think Rafa was wrong to leave Xabi out - unless there was a deeper reason; F365 speculated today that, as with Reading away last year, as he is still financially obliged to deliver CL progress he could not afford to lose Xabi for Wednesday (especially if Stevie doesn't fully recover), so took a calculated gamble. It's not quite the same imperative as 'League first' vs 'concentrating on Europe', as "we should still have won with ..." but maybe it was a factor.

Thank f*** I made a fool of myself, because I've been making plans for the weekend - and Monday evening - based around us playing Saturday. Need to rewind! Strangely enough, I was concerned about 'Saturday' because I always feel that November is traditionally our worst month, 2 losses and 2 home draws so far confirming that, and am now immensely, and irrationally, relieved that we are playing West Ham in December instead (although I know December was poor for us last year).

The Ground or the Area? Some of those streets of tinned-up houses between Walton Breck/Oakfield Road and Robson St/Breckfield Road already are.

Tony Barrett and Tony Evans have said the same thing - and it's a useful counterpoint to any knee-jerking. The City phone-in after the match was unreal, all the 'We'll never win the league under this fella" brigade out in force - and not really challenged by Aldo and the presenter - and plenty going for "I don't like to slag individual players off - but that Lucas should never wear the shirt again"; and that was mild compared to some of the stuff in the Moan Stand at the match, even within 5 minutes of Kick Off. Surprisingly, it was relatively calm on here on Saturday night, though. I know there's a symbiotic relationship between Crowd enthusiasm and Team performance, but poor as the Team were on Saturday, the crowd were terrible, as bad as I can recall. Tomorrow will be different no doubt, but let's hope we're not as flat on Saturday again.

Tony Evans of The Times on Talksport this morning was good value as ever; a proud, scouse, committed Red, usually insightful, balanced (in our favour!) and informed. It's probably done the rounds a million times on here, but I loved his comment about tonight's Wigan v Everton match - "When they move to Kirkby, this will be their Derby, won't it...". Class.

Kuyt's control gets criticised a lot, but for me, he's a player that always shows, so often gets the ball in a part of the pitch where he is pressured (and the quality of the ball in isn't always that good). The point about the width in the original post is well made - it's notable to me how often Kuyt is receiving those passes from Xabi in a position where he has more of a chance to show his touch

Captains all over the pitch....

As long as it's nothing to do with the world-class midfielder with a similar name....

That Goal of the Season in the 88 semi-final - sweetly timed yet powerful volley on the run from a delicious Barnes cross after exquisite Beardsley approach play - encapsulated the quintessence of that marvellous team in one orgasmic passage of play. Utterly fantastic. This - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gdOUS5tQ3Qw - never stales. That Barnes isn't too shabby, either.

Is true. Megson even used the phrase 'before the ball comes in', admitting that it the push was when the ball was dead - I'm pretty sure I saw McCann pick the ball up to place it in the corner as well, so it should have been handball to us by his logic. I can't stafd this 'it would have been a different game' cr*p as well. Different how? Bolton had their best spell for the next 20 minutes anyway, and we went on to score another, so we would still have won 2-1. If you want to pretend it would have been radically different - then that cuts both ways. It makes just as much sense, logically, to argue that we would have picked it up quicker second-half, brought Torres on earlier etc - and gone on to make and convert even more chances. So I say let them have the goal, and we win 5-1. Works for me.

Fears?

Lucas is clearly the latest player to enter that Twilight Zone where the received opinion is so fixed that people can no longer see anything positive, falling over themselves to point out his deficiencies. Those behind me yesterday were giving him awful stick virtually from the moment he came on, even though he didn't do much wrong; he got the same last week vs Portsmouth when he was one of our better players imo. He's solid and tidy, keeps the ball moving. He's not Rivelinho, but he's no way near as poor as some would choose to paint him. After a brief and unsustainable targetting of Xabi, these 'fans' have - reluctantly - moved on to Lucas instead of slagging off Kuyt (although last night was possibly the worse shift he's put in for a long time). It's sometime hard to keep up with the latest trend as to who should get the dog's abuse, and nothing is more embarassing than having a pop at someone who has beeen granted a reprieve, or applauding someone who has been cast into the darkness. Thank heavens for the Internet to keep us informed. Remind me again - who is persona non grata for the West Brom game so I can cultivate my poison in advance?

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