JRC

I'd say Skrtels price - being a defender - was equivalent to Babels as an attacker. I would also suggest he is 'younger' - in relative terms - as a defender, than Babel as an attacker, if that makes sense. And our radar is always going to be better tuned to Holland rather than Russia or Slovakia.

But only one in the Alonso household in the next day or so, and I am amazed that there are still people who want to criticize Alonso for putting his family first in this instance. My Dad is old school, pushing 80, and this was not an option in his day, of course - but his view is that if it HAD been, something like work (no matter how well paid or not) wouldn't have made him think twice. This kind of thing is a reflection of a more humane and enlightened attitude to our responsibilities and priorities, imo, and I'm all in favour of that. Actually, I'm quite impressed with Alonso's commitment to follow on the next flight, although I fully understand Rafa not wanting that uncertainty.

I think there are very clear signs of Xabi returning to his best form. He was the Echo MOM aganist Bolton - rightly imo - and looked good against West Ham alongside Mascher; on Saturday, Newcastle did not defend badly for the first 40 minutes, and we had to be patient - I thought Xabi's passing touched the sublime heights of his very best for long periods of the game - not just the sumptuous crossfield ball to Pennant, but the general stroking it around, awareness, probing - even the controlled chip up to Gerrard that started the 3rd goal movement was beautifully executed. A couple more mistakes than when he is firing on all cylinders, I accept, and coasted like the rest for the last 30, but very encouraging overall. In my top 3 for MOM on Saturday.

It's an interesting factor in the Rafa argument, i.e. whether he gets English Football or not; first year we were poor away, and 2nd, his purchase of Peter Crouch was explicitly an attempt to play a new kind of game - an English game - and our away form was notably better. Last year our away form was pants, I have no explanation why, but our home form was as good as anyone's. This year it's reversed. Yet I can't see anything between this year and last year that could explain that switch - nothing in our setup or approach that would let anyone say why it should be so; quite the opposite, given Torres goalscoring record has been significantly biased towards home games. It certainly seems to defy explanation as being due to rotation - it's inconsistency, to be sure, but not random inconsistency as you would expect from a cause common to both home and away games (Do we rotate more or less for home games or away? I'm sure some stat monkey can tell me). The season we marry our best home and away records to date we will the win the league...

Whilst that would undoubtedly be entertaining, it still gives them something over us and a come back (although I'd love to say 'Well, you knew the rules at the start of the season, so you can't complain...') and would make the possibility of defeat in the final even more scary, a potential double-blow. I'd prefer to finsh 4th by a distane, but a last day stomach bug related overhauling of the bitters, followed by a CL win anyway, would be very sweet.

Nah, Barnsley to win, beating Utd and Chelsea on the way. Shuts everyone up, that.

If it does bcome a joint-ownership issue, especially if DIC have the largest part, we may get the best of both worlds - one of the supposed positive factors re going wit G&H was their superior experience of the 'sports franchise' business, ability to get stadiums built etc.. Now I know that such things have hardly been evident of late, but there were initial encouraging signs of a different approach - dropping the Parry Bowl, Marketing Director, TV station, commitment to modernise ticket office (iirc) - which spoke exactly of such experience being applied, and which were generally received with approval. IF we regain that focus, and DIC provide both the financial and cultural ballast whilst keeping Hicks worst excesses and traits (and mouth) in check, we will be OK - and Hicks desire to maximise his return from the honey pot will be met in a way that is still to our advantage. I would still resent the situation, but could live with it Alternatively, especially if DIC do not have a majority stake, we could continue to have turmoil and stalemate and Hicks mouthing off, and nothing gets done, except we slid into mid-table in a half-empty generic concrete bowl. So what do I know?

This caught my eye in the Telegraph article Having spent the first part of last week in Dubai, where he was seeking new backers for his US investment company, Hicks Holdings, If he is talking to DIC, or anyione DIC-related about that, maybe his LFC holding is just a bargaining chip for him in a bigger game. Hicks Holdings is the 'higher' corporate entity, which he restructured (or even created) recently, and disussion about price, or control, or his residual holding in LFC could just be to get the best deal in terms of the Holding Company?

As they have no football background, the concept of 'their own man' is a bit flawed. In the context of business managers it make sense to have executives you have worked with succesfully previously, understand and appreciate, take over in senior roles -behind you, Rick! - but the only way a Rafa replacement would be 'their own man' would be in that they chose him - but as they would never have worked with them before, that offers them no advantage over Rafa who they haven't worked with before either. If it is simply because they don't tihnk Rafa is right for it, and X, Y or Z is, that's different, but again, I'd question their relevant experience to make that suggestion at the moment - and whether they are in fact the solution we are looking for, if that's how they intend to act before they get involved with the job of owning/running/dveloping the club.

Following recent comments from Rafa, one of the latest phrases to be churned out against us by those without original thought is that the CL is 'easy to win' - see F365 comment and letters passim. Even amongst ourselves, who all glory in our success, there are disputes about how much it is appreciated or respected; those who believe Rafa's time is up have to at least justify their view against the reality of 2005 and 2007, or explain how they marry thier current position with that reality - which is fair enough. Anyone coming on here genuinely dismissing our recent European acheivements (as opposed to diminishing them by implication) would get pretty short shrift from ALL sides. In that conrtext,it has been interesting to hear Grant come out so strongly about only a CL win making Chelsea a big club (perhaps to be expected,as we know that he is Roman's place man, and the CL is Roman's primary objective), and now Ferguson claiming it is his biggest challenge. After last night, there is a sligt suggestion hat Wenger will not cement his managerial reptation as a true great if he can't improve in Europe. Mancini, with 2 Serie A and a 3rd on the way is reputedly under pessure after Tuesday, for Inter being serial underacheivers in the CL. I know we tend to want more that which we can't have - or at least haven't looked like having for a generation -, and the internal debate is fully justified; but let's not acquiesce to those who can only dream of the kind of success we have had, and continue to have, in Europe.

I'm not paid to turn up (quite the opposite, ofcourse), I turn up out of a mixture of passion, family history and upbringing, blind optimism and irrational devotion. But I was still more up for last night than Barnsley, I have to admit.

As I left the match, I said to my lad that at least we could listen to the radio on the way home, unlike the deathly silence of Saturday. I was wrong, as both TalkSport and 5Live desperately tried to manage the agenda back to the Rafa-kicking one they had clearly been counting on. The blert on TS - Nigel something - kept bellowing that he was neutral, no axe to grind, but the topics for discussion were - 'Liverpool fans - should you be happy after tonight when you consider how poor you are in the PL?' and 'Is Rafa a lucky manager?' So - not loaded or prejudged then. Worse, the usual collection of LFC 'supporting' misfits, malcontents and morons - who had probably been waiting with their sweaty fingers above the phone pad to get their latest rant in from half time onwards, and decied to call anyway even when we won - obliged, whilst those who objected to the line being taken got short shrift.

It happened so often, I was seriously considering whether hitting the first man hadn't become a deliberate tactic from set pieces. Like us, most team keep all 11 back, so when the first defender got a head to it, we almost always got the ball back in a position where we could put in a better cross to a defence that had lost it's shape, potentially playing for offside etc. Didn't produce any end results, obviously, but it's a theory we sure as hell looked like we were testing out at times. But wtf, we won, and won gloriously. Come ON!!!

Xabi started off like was going to have a mare - first 2-3 passes off target -, but gave a cameo of what we were used to just before half time - coming forward for the shot, sublime pass for the goal, confident. Looked pretty good second half - the delay and pass for Yossi just after they scored was pure Alonso - and kept it moving reasonably well, but started to slip again before the end. Only glimpses, I just hope we get to see more, on a more consistent basis, in the weeks to come

Absolutely - especially as he clearly has a number of high profile posters who know him personally and so back, support and - sometimes - indulge him. He certainly appears to give as good as he gets and is no shrinking violet, so doesn't need, nor should expect, any special protection. He's not had any 'bullying' to compare with what boohog got for trying provide some clarity about financial matters a couple of weeks ago. And please, let's get off this forum relativism that any opinion is valid. The right to express an opinion is universal, to be sure, but that doesn't mean the content of any one opinion is as beyond criticism, argument or refutation as any other, nor that the manner in which that expression is made, or a difference of opinion debated, cannot in itself be offensive, disrespectful, patronising etc. Nor is this the Oxford Union, so we've all got to expecta bit of rough and tumble.

A man after my own heart and inclinations, Andy - although I've got another 10-15 years or so on you. Nice response from Ant, as well but It hink the point about the 'Sky-Generation' is not that they are influenced by Sky, more that the 'Sky' approach is indicative and representative of a different attitude to (and from, probably) the game, one that auld-arses like us are not comfortable with. It could just as easily be the '606' or 'Talksport Generation' as a definition - and I think we all recognise the worst traits of the 'Fans' that like to hear their own voices on those estimable media. OR sites like F365, with (no doubt 'genuine') letters from Liverpool fans screaming 'JUST GET RID OF THIS F*****G CLOWN". That's not the kind of thing I want to be seen as representative of my club, sorry. Except, it's not even a generation, or an OOT, or a match-goers thing. My lad sits next to me in the same seat where I sat next to my Dad when I was his age, and I hope I've brought him up with respect for what I believe are the articles of our faith - don't leave before the end, always sing YNWA (even - especially - at difficult times), back the man in the red shirt whilst at the game, booing never made a player or a team better, an ugly win is better than an attractive draw, Liverpool winning a corner is more important than England winning a World Cup, respect the opposition (no showboating!), clap their goalkeeper etc. Unfortunatley, he is getting frustrated - not specifically with what's going on on the pitch or in the board room, although we're not exactly dancing about that -but with the constant carping and misanthropy from the 'fans' around us in the Moan Stand - many of them older than me, ST Holders with certified pure scouse accents. I know Ant, whatever he says on here, talks of crossing a line when you go into the stadium in terms of giving and expressing your support. More and more seem unable to recognise that line. It's wearing us both down to be honest - we prefer the aways when we can get to them, although they're not without their beauts. I can't wait to get to the new stadium for a hopefully less poisonous environement, but am concerned that the solidarity, defiance and values that seemed to use to drive us (and yes, I nkow there were moaners before) may be gone for good.

A non-Liverpool specific article from F365 that is quite apposite... http://www.football365.com/john_nicholson/...3162322,00.html ..and the Blue WKD reference is entirely co-incidental

How come? We've only played one CL game since Reading, and that was 3 days afterwards. There is nothing about our form since in the leage that can credibly be attributed to us having 'sacrificed the league for the Champions League'

...And my post was 100% supportive of your position...or am I missing something in your sarcastic reaction to my sarcastic reductio ad absurdum?

If winning La Liga twice is not considered a suitable reference point for winning the Premier League, we should go for a manager who knows how to win a Legue where you cannot afford to lose any points against the lesser clubs and overcome your main rivals to win the title; so that's Gordon Strachan or Walter Smith, then, right?

The very fact of Kenny leaving when and as he did is proof that he himself was aware of the pressure he was feeling personally, and almost certainly that it was affecting his peformance as manager. There were the slightest indications that we were losing our edge as a great team aged, even though we still had enough to be champions again, and I thnnk Kenny understood more than anyone the immensity of maintaining our dominance - and that Carter, Speedie, Hyssen et al were not up to it, and nor, for obvious and understandable reasons, was he - at the time. Fwiw, I believe that if the Board had been more sympathetic and insisted Kenny took a 12 month sabbatical, I believe we would have had 19, 20 and the rest bagged up years ago on his return.

Get over yourself, it was you who mentioned the point about 'the top 3' and 'the rest of the pack' and 'daylight'; I was simply countering that our current league struggles do not accurately reflect where we have been over the previous 2 full seasons and up to December this season - they are more the product of a terrible 10 weeks or so, whoever's fault that is (hence moot - not because I think our current position is good enough, or even finishing 3rd regularly, but because that was not my point). If you are going to invoke the Top 3 (or Big 3 as opposed to the traditional Big 4 as so many media outlets are now choosing to do, somewhat provocatively), you can't ignore that it included us for the last 2 seasons, and certainly didn't clearly exclude us for the best part of this one.

Except for 2 seasons we have been securely in the Top 3, and considering less than half the season had gone and taking into account City's amazing early season form (which was handsomely funded as well, of course), we were looking to be in at least as comfortably positioned this season at the beginning of December. Whether that as a whole is good enough, or our form at the time was, or whose fault it is that we have dropped off a cliff since Xmas are all moot and up for discussion, but our current League predicament is not entirely reflective of the past 2-3 years.

Roman and his missus? Do his kids get Junior Billionaire Oligarch ones for say 600K?

These tables are usually pretty broad brush, and iirc, in a pevious incarnation, they didn't strip out income from associated businesses - such as Chelsea Village (Hotels/property etc), and I think the same is true of Spurs whose holding company have other businesses; depends on the corporate structure, I suppose. This may or not be the case for these figures, but the disparity in turnover does seem huge and needs a lot of sponsorship and very high prices to explain.