SteveT

..and that he got Völler sent off with him

I think that sums it up quite nicely, actually.

This content is not viewable to guests.

especially with his week-in, week-out experience of players playacting to waste time, gain unfair advantages, get other players booked etc. In that sort of climate, it's very unfair to blame the referee.

This content is not viewable to guests.

This content is not viewable to guests.

This content is not viewable to guests.

This content is not viewable to guests.

I was too close to a small group of mancs to smell anything else.....

You may well be right there, but the live experience made it my personal favourite - and I was almost bang in line with it myself

Sentimental value. Ageing fans looking back to the days when they were young and possibly even fit......... Jimmy Case would have been my choice, too

This content is not viewable to guests.

I'd definitely have more respect for them if they'd have done it before the tournament rather than uisng their criticism as a way of excusing their own poor performances. Ballack was man enough to make criticisms of Klinsmann's approach and tactics in April or May after they lost 4-1 to Italy in a friendly and that doesn't seem to have done the Germans' cause any great harm. Maybe England's players are as spineless off the pitch as they were on it.

We are England and we need a foreigner to blame so that's why we argue. It's quite ridiculous that anyone could believe that the ref was persuaded to to send a player off because of opponents' intervention The creation of the next "stabbed in the back" legend is well underway. Who needs Urs Meier when you can have Placcy Ronaldo?

My sentiments exactly. I must have missed this thread when it started off, but having just read through it, some of the "arguments against" are quite amazing from people who have obviously never seen the lad play regularly. It reminds me of the attitude the Germans have always had against that useless lump of garbage Didi Hamann.....

Argentina have screwed this up with their own tactics. They had the Germans in the bag but tried to sit on a one goal lead. If they go out now, they've only themselves to blame

England! Cos I'm English Cos I want the Liverpool players in the team to win Cos I'm going to gloat like hell if the host nation don't win it

Current form, home advantage, a huge wave of euphoria and they believe they can do it Germany will win

...at making fish and chips? Singing silly songs or getting completely detached from reality when talking about their national teams? Nobody has played worse football thatn the game I've just seen. Not even Ukraine and Tunisia

Looks like England are as well This certainly wins as the most boring game of this world cup so far.

Do FIFA see football as a sport??? It'll be bad for business if the hosts go out at this stage... I seriously doubt whether a German player would have been given the same treatment

This content is not viewable to guests.

This content is not viewable to guests.

The height Shilton gets off the ground looks quite funny on that photo, too

But can the American commentators be any more stupid than the German one we had here today who spent the whole game telling us all that not only was Frank Lampard the driving force of the England team and the one they all look to for inspiration, he was also the de facto captain and the the one who gave all the inspiring team talks in the dressing room at half time rather than Eriksson. Now that's real stupidity