kop205

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You are wasting your time mate. He decided ages ago that anyone who does anything other than slaughter Fowler's every move is a blind/nostalgic fool. Pretty much all he ever posts is stuff having a go at him or at anyone who sees any good qualities in him. You've actually hit the nail right on the head there about Fowler there though. The lack of criticism isn't people protecting him, it is a reflection of relatively modest expectations. I don't mind people not rating Fowler, but it pisses me off when they constantly misrepresent the position / exaggerate the expectations of those who feel he can make a contribution. As for Alonso, I honestly don't think he has been slaughtered by anyone on here. It would be an insult to a player of his class to pretend that his form has been anything other than very ordinary, verging on poor, this season - though there were signs of recovery on Tuesday. As I've said elsewhere, I'm confident enough in his world class abilities to be able to show a bit of honesty and make the observation when he has had a bad game. He doesn't need protecting. People have jumped on posts that have pointed out his form as evidence of bias towards local players or examples of people being kneejerk when they are neither. Maybe the people who are so quick to jump on those pointing out Alonso's ordinary form are the ones who really doubt him and are too insecure about him to say he's not been playing well. I on the other hand know he'll be fine. There may be some drama queens on here who have hissy fits every time we fail to win, but there are more who have hissy fits at even the merest, mildest, occasional criticism.

Just to clarify, I exgaggerated slightly when I said I stopped reading at that quote. I got quite a bit further but the initial fears that quotes like that prompted, vis a vis whereb the debate was going, were only confirmed by what came after, or at least what is hinted at. The hooligan stuff you refer to is not 'news' to me, I was well aware of it - certainly the incident on the ferry to Dublin is almost 'legendary'. I'm just not that interested in it in some ways. If they want to rant on about how Heysel unfairly denied them greatness, then let them. All they are doing is making themselves look insensitive fools, and to even dignify their arguments with counter arguments is to be guilty of equal insensitivity. I don't doubt that the lad put a lot of work into it and the one thing that is worth reminding people of is that the notion that their ban was 'unfair', totally undeserved and without reason is an utter myth. Granted, that is one lie he does nail as I suppose there are people who are unaware of their hooligan track record. It is a lie worth nailing, in the same way as teh S*n's lies about Hillsborough are worth nailing. The rest of the stuff hinted at in the piece (that actually they wouldn't have won the European Cup and therefore weren't denied anything) is what I can't be arsed with. It is hardly likely to change the opinions of the bitterest of the bitter and in fact it would probably do the opposite and rile them even more and shift the focus even further away from what it should be on when Heysel is discussed - the people who died. By all means nail the lie that thier fans were angels at the time - but don't even get into the debate about what they would/wouldn't have done if Heysel hadn't happened.To try and prove that actually they wouldn't have won the European Cup the year after is to completely and utterly miss the point. Them being allowed into Europe but not winning it wouldn't make Heysel any less of a tragedy, because it isn't and never has been in any way 'their' tragedy to begin with. Hillsborough probably cost us the League in 89 but winning the League would hardly have diminished the tragedy. What does it f***ing matter if Everton were 'denied greatness' by Heysel? Maybe they were, maybe they weren't, nobody will ever know for sure. They are sick f*****s for prattling about what it alledgedly 'cost' them. We are making a mistake if we get sucked into that debate.

Not being funny, but don't most keeprs struggle with shots at pace into the corner of the goal? There is a lot of b******s being spoken about Reina at the moment (and that isn't particularly a criticism of you mate). He made great saves in both legs against Haifa and from a one-on-one against Harewood (or was it Reo-Coker?) when we were 1-0 down to West Ham. The only goal he is undeniably at fault for this season is the third one on Saturday, as the West Ham goal was a freak. He hasn't had a settled, on-form defence to play behind as yet and when he does I imagine the sniping will stop.

at the bit in bold. Quality, and absolutely spot on. Can't think of many teams in the modern game prospering without pace and one of the reasosn people we're so pleased with the summer transfer activity was because it brought pace in abundance - so it was puzzling to to see it not used yesterday. Obviously agreeing with you makes me an amateur as well though, so I'll 'trot on' too.

Wouldn't expect non-Liverpool fans to be berated for buying/selling the paper, but I think it is almost a duty to raise the issue with Liverpool fans who buy it. What they printed was an accuation against everyone of us, by association. For a Liverpool fan who is aware of the issue to buy that paper is incredibly insensitive. Time elapsed makes no difference. There has never been an acceptable apology from them so if it is ok to buy it now then it was a waste of time ever having a boycott in the first place and we may as well have just shrugged our shoulders and let it go unchallenged.

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Nobody can say anything can they? f***s sake lad, you are the biggest drama queen on here. The fella who posted the thread was just thinking out loud and probably just voicing soemthing that had crossed a few people's minds, even if it was just for a split second. Don't be so precious.

Mate of mine commented yesterday that it is amazing how much difference Johnson makes ot Everton. I think Kuyt (and Bellamy) could do that for us this year - the difference being that we are starting from a much higher base.

If that is what it is then fine, but he is certainly missing something at the moment. As I've said previously, I see no need to defend Alonso when he plays poorly precisely because I rate him so highly. It is actually more insulting to him to claim he is playing well at the moment than to say he isn't. In the big schemes of things, I'm not worried about Alonso and I'm not worried about our form as I am confident both will come good. A few years ago under Houllier we started the season playing some really good football but got some pretty average results and I thought that it was only a matter of time before we started getting what our football deserved. Instead we went back into our shells and things got worse. This isn't the same, as the poor results at the moment (and it is still our first defeat for a long time) are because we haven't hit top form yet. When we do, all of this will be forgotten.

Against teams who play in blue. With grounds made of wood.

Off the top of my head? From last season: A match winning 2nd against Sunderland. A late equaliser against Bolton, which the little 'tackle dodger' injured himself in scoring, to preserve our unbeaten run. An equaliser against Arsenal which would have got us a point if it hadn't been for an aberration from Gerrard. I can remember a crucial first goal against Norwich from the season before as well, but I can't really be arsed checking back to see any other goals he got in away league games or trawling back through match reports etc to see where he had decent games. Of course, your already narrow criteria which excluded things like his goal in the OT semi last year, will no doubt be narrowed further. 'Name me a time when Garcia had a good game at Goodison, in August, when it was quite hot, and nobody else was playing very well. Well?' I don't totally disagree with your sentiments about Garcia but like many do, you take it a bit far - especially when poor as he was yesterday, he forced Howard into his most difficult save. .

In that case, nailing Cahill is hardly the answer. You give him far too much credit for his impact on the game. A tap in folloiwng a foul on Finnan and a snidey foul on Alonso that the ref should have picked up on.

If that was Xabi having a 'good game' then I must have dreamt all those performances where he was run the show and looked like the best player at the club, bar none. He is, by hisn own standards, playing very, very poorly at the moment - where is the problem saying that? He isn't the only one but he is so good that it is more noticeable with him. The stuff people have posted about Xabi has hardly been rabid criticism - more concern and surprise at his lack of form. Carragher's mistake yesterday was a shocker and just one of those things - other than that he did his job. Xabi didn't, apart form creating one chance for Gerrard. Nobody gets more stick than local lads - Gerrard at times in the last couple of years, Carra pre his move to centre back, Owen, Fowler from certain posters now. I don't particulalrly have a problem with that, it has always been the way - ask Sammy Lee - but it certainly demolosihes the ridiculous notion that Xabi is getting it in the neck because he is Spanish. Stop being such a drama queen. Like with Xabi, I'm confident enough in Rafa's ability to be able to admit when I think he may have got it wrong without it shaking my basic faith in him. Of course, if you want to delude yourself that I therefore must want Allardyce in then feel free. We've not been playing well for a little while, there were one or two puzzling selections yesterday, we lost, we move one. I think it is out of our system now and expect to see a good reaction from us - Xabi included.

No he didn't. I'm confident enough in Xabi's quality to not have to defend him when he is struggling, and at the moment he is struggling. He'll come through it, but he is far better than he has shown this season. The 'if Carragher was Spanish' comment is just ridiculous to be honest. Yeah, because people don't normally rave over Pepe and Xabi, do they? Very few people played well yesterday on either side. 3 - 0 was, frankly, a freak result. I still felt they were there for the taking at half-time but in all honesty, a result like this has been coming for a little while. We conceded a few goals at the end of last season, were woeful pre-season ans have looked shaky so far this season. Hopefully it is now out of our systems. The season starts now and I'm confident in how we'll do. Last time we lost the Goodison derby, we finished the season as European Champions and we are a stronger team now than we were then. Get a grip. I'm not going to bother reminding you of the fantastic contribution he has made in games where he has started because they are so well-documented that everyone knows them. Yes, he is frustrating, but you've gone way too far there. Momo was one of our better players I thought. Cahill didn't really influence the game beyond his goal, which was hardly down to Hamann not playing.

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