Central midfielders

[RedLars]

IMHO we currently have one good (Lucas) and three excellent central midfielders (Alonso, Mach, Gerrard). This gives Rafa many options.

 

However, I do worry slightly that these players are a bit similar in some aspects. This is mainly an issue when we are missing Gerrard at home. This means we get less of goal treat from central midfield and less deep runs into the box. This again adds more pressure on the wingers and strikers to produce.

 

Do we lack a more adventurous dynamic midfielder?

Edited November 30, 2008 by RedLars

[carrafan]

Do we lack a more adventurous dynamic midfielder?

 

Well then he'd have to be content not playing many games a year because of the competition ahead of him, wouldnt he? Interestingly, Benayoun specialises in that role but hasnt been played in that role at all...even when Gerrard has been missing. Is Rafa looking for others things for a player in that position?

[Rory Fitzgerald]

IMHO we currently have one good (Lucas) and three excellent central midfielders (Alonso, Mach, Gerrard). This gives Rafa many options.

 

However, I do worry slightly that these players are a bit similar in some aspects. This is mainly an issue when we are missing Gerrard at home. This means we get less of goal treat from central midfield and less deep runs into the box. This again adds more pressure on the wingers and strikers to produce.

 

Do we lack a more adventurous dynamic midfielder?

 

 

I believe its Rafa's belief of what a CM's modus operandi is - i.e protect the back 4, remain disciplined and keep the game ticking over. After that, its up to the strikers and wide men for the creativity.

[RedLars]

Well then he'd have to be content not playing many games a year because of the competition ahead of him, wouldnt he? Interestingly, Benayoun specialises in that role but hasnt been played in that role at all...even when Gerrard has been missing. Is Rafa looking for others things for a player in that position?

 

Depends on the quality we bring in.

 

In my opinion we should consider replacing one of our current midfielder with someone more adventurous and dynamic.

[RedLars]

I believe its Rafa's belief of what a CM's modus operandi is - i.e protect the back 4, remain disciplined and keep the game ticking over. After that, its up to the strikers and wide men for the creativity.

 

So Gerrard is the exception. Seem to remember Rubén Baraja scoring quite frequently for Valencia.

 

I guess, especially at anfield, I would like to see a more adventurous and dynamic central midfield.

[New York Red]

--------------Marcherano---------------

 

Kuyt-----Gerrard-----Diego------Riera

 

----------------Torres------------------

 

Babel to cover on the left, right, and up front.

Keane to cover up front.

Alonso to rotate with Gerrard and Diego.

Gerrard to cover on the right.

Kuyt to cover up front.

 

Pennant, Lucas and Benny out.

[Saintslfc13]

IMHO we currently have one good (Lucas) and three excellent central midfielders (Alonso, Mach, Gerrard). This gives Rafa many options.

 

However, I do worry slightly that these players are a bit similar in some aspects. This is mainly an issue when we are missing Gerrard at home. This means we get less of goal treat from central midfield and less deep runs into the box. This again adds more pressure on the wingers and strikers to produce.

 

Do we lack a more adventurous dynamic midfielder?

 

In my opinion the answer to your question isn't quite straight forward. At the moment yes we lack another adventurous dynamic midfielder to give Gerrard a break now and then. However, I really feel that he's in our squad at the moment in Lucas. He just lacks the confidence or maybe even Rafa's permission to be more attacking and he doesn't always get the chance to come in for Gerrard from the start and therefore play the game his way. He almost always has specific instructions for his appearances and so we really don't know what we have in him. I agree he had a bad game at Fulham but if he presses on through the battering he took from our fans then I think he'll come good. We really should just be thankful it wasn't Babel who was treated that way as I see Babel as one that would crack under that type of criticism, but I don't want to turn this into another thread about that. My point is I feel Rafa wants Lucas to be Gerrard's understudy and heir apparent, not for the captaincy mind you but for that role of moving the ball up through the center and pressuring the opponent's penalty box from the cm position. If ever plays for us like he did at Gremio we'll have two of the best attacking mids on the world's on our books.

 

I see a lot of want us to get Diego but you have to remember this is Rafa we're talking about and I think Diego is too attacking for him, he's not a "Rafa" player if you will. I'll admit I've not seen him play for Bremen, only for Brasil and he fits their ultra attacking style well but thats nothing like how we play. We need a midfielder that will attack and can and will defend as well. I've never read an article about Diego getting stuck in or making that last second tackle or even defending the way Rafa wants our midfielders to play. If anyone has evidence to suggest otherwise please show me, I wouldn't mind him hear I just don't think he does enough on both ends for Rafa to warrant spending the money we need on him.

[Alonso]

What about Michael Johnson at Man City, could be worth a cheeky bid as cover for Gerrard. Seems to have that ability to break from midfield yet get stuck in. Rafa was rumoured to be interested a while back as well.

[Kite]

I believe its Rafa's belief of what a CM's modus operandi is - i.e protect the back 4, remain disciplined and keep the game ticking over. After that, its up to the strikers and wide men for the creativity.

I'd agree with that too. Players play differently under different managers. If it can be said that our central midfield lacks some sort of dynamism then the fault lies ultimately with Rafa.

[Rory Fitzgerald]

So Gerrard is the exception.

 

He is the exception but he doesnt play that role consistently under Rafa. Rafa has played him at right midfield, the very odd time at left midfield (though I could count them on 1 hand) and behind a striker in Crouch and Torres.

 

I dont think many people would disagree with the belief that Rafa prefers 2 holding and disciplined players in the center in Alonso, Mascher, Sissoko, Hamann rather than 2 ball playing players like a Fabregas and Carrick.

[Mike]

lucas is good? missed that one.

[Bootle Buck]

Cheeky bid for Steven Ireland. We might have had a chance until Man City became filthy rich.

[Rory Fitzgerald]

Cheeky bid for Steven Ireland. We might have had a chance until Man City became filthy rich.

 

Rafas set up is not for him and he represents everything that Rafa would not enterain in a central midfielder. He is flash when winning but mostly anonymous when under the cosh.

 

Rafa prefers a Mascherano when losing and when winning, he has other players that can win a game.

 

FYI - I'm Irish and would love Ireland in the Irish team

[Ben 23]

To chuck a name in Elano.

 

Creative more than 'dynamic' but still, opinions?

Edited November 30, 2008 by Ben 23

[Mike]

To chuck a name in Elano.

 

Creative more than 'dynamic' but still, opinions?

 

w***.

[MFletcher]

Elano has been embarrassingly bad since this time last year. It's almost as if he decided he'd proved himself after his first ten games and further effort was not required.

Edited November 30, 2008 by MFletcher

[Bootle Buck]

Elano has been embarrassingly bad since this time last year. It's almost as if he decided he'd proved himself after his first ten games and further effort was not required.

 

He was certainly woeful today. Gave the ball to a Utd player evry time he had it. Looks very lazy and self centered.

[Stevie H]

To chuck a name in Elano.

 

Creative more than 'dynamic' but still, opinions?

he's in the wrong country. same as diego would be.

[Stevie H]

and alou diarra is the best centre mid outside the top four at the minute.

[RedLars]

In my opinion the answer to your question isn't quite straight forward. At the moment yes we lack another adventurous dynamic midfielder to give Gerrard a break now and then. However, I really feel that he's in our squad at the moment in Lucas. He just lacks the confidence or maybe even Rafa's permission to be more attacking and he doesn't always get the chance to come in for Gerrard from the start and therefore play the game his way. He almost always has specific instructions for his appearances and so we really don't know what we have in him. I agree he had a bad game at Fulham but if he presses on through the battering he took from our fans then I think he'll come good. We really should just be thankful it wasn't Babel who was treated that way as I see Babel as one that would crack under that type of criticism, but I don't want to turn this into another thread about that. My point is I feel Rafa wants Lucas to be Gerrard's understudy and heir apparent, not for the captaincy mind you but for that role of moving the ball up through the center and pressuring the opponent's penalty box from the cm position. If ever plays for us like he did at Gremio we'll have two of the best attacking mids on the world's on our books.

 

I see a lot of want us to get Diego but you have to remember this is Rafa we're talking about and I think Diego is too attacking for him, he's not a "Rafa" player if you will. I'll admit I've not seen him play for Bremen, only for Brasil and he fits their ultra attacking style well but thats nothing like how we play. We need a midfielder that will attack and can and will defend as well. I've never read an article about Diego getting stuck in or making that last second tackle or even defending the way Rafa wants our midfielders to play. If anyone has evidence to suggest otherwise please show me, I wouldn't mind him hear I just don't think he does enough on both ends for Rafa to warrant spending the money we need on him.

 

Agree that confidence and playing to Rafa’s design might hinder Lucas. Lack of games might also be a factor. For me he is average in all compartments, both a positive and negative thing I guess. Just don’t see him taking the step up to be honest. He has not had the progression in his game that I had hoped.

[RedLars]

I'd agree with that too. Players play differently under different managers. If it can be said that our central midfield lacks some sort of dynamism then the fault lies ultimately with Rafa.

 

He is the exception but he doesnt play that role consistently under Rafa. Rafa has played him at right midfield, the very odd time at left midfield (though I could count them on 1 hand) and behind a striker in Crouch and Torres.

 

I dont think many people would disagree with the belief that Rafa prefers 2 holding and disciplined players in the center in Alonso, Mascher, Sissoko, Hamann rather than 2 ball playing players like a Fabregas and Carrick.

 

Agree that it is Rafa's way of playing. I just find it frustrating with the lack of movement, especially at anfield. It sort of limits Rafa's options to a certain extend by only really having one attacking dynamic midfielder in Gerrard IMHO.

[RedLars]

lucas is good? missed that one.

 

Thank you for participating in the discussion and not focusing on minor details.

[Hassony]

he's in the wrong country. same as diego would be.

 

Diego is better than Elano, Think he can be succesful in england

[Ben 23]

Diego is better than Elano, Think he can be succesful in england

 

Diego would cost like ten times as more as well.

 

I'd think Elano would be quite cheap as Hughes doesn't seem to get on with him. Just a creative attacking midfield that I think we lack. Can create something out of nothing and is already in the country which is a plus. Easy and better replacement for Benayoun in my opinion.

[Mike]

Thank you for participating in the discussion and not focusing on minor details.

 

i am participating really, if you discount lucas, which i think you should, we don't have that many options there. mascherano is an out and out defensive midfielder, xabi is your consumate stylish game controlling centre mid, leaving gerrard as the only 'dynamic' centre mid. lucas was surely bought as a gerrard alternative in that position...and to date he hasn't been of anywhere near the required standard.