Premiership Away Record

[honourablegeorge]

I saw a table on Saturday which put us three points behind Arsenal on away results, and the win at Bolton takes us level on away points with them - seven away wins and five draws.

 

Hard to believe, away form was always our weakness under Rafa.

[Raj]

The away record is very good.

Still can't believe that we have drawn 6 games at home this season.

[honourablegeorge]

Yep, read 'em and weep. Lot of leads lost too, something we used rarely do. That Chelsea penalty still gives me the rage.

 

Chelsea 1-1

Birmingham City 0-0

Tottenham Hotspur 2-2

Arsenal 1-1

Wigan Athletic 1-1

Aston Villa 2-2

[Raj]

Should have beaten Chelsea, Spurs, Wigan and Villa out of that lot.

We never closed the game out in these games.

 

There's an extra 8 points there.

[JRC]

It's an interesting factor in the Rafa argument, i.e. whether he gets English Football or not; first year we were poor away, and 2nd, his purchase of Peter Crouch was explicitly an attempt to play a new kind of game - an English game - and our away form was notably better. Last year our away form was pants, I have no explanation why, but our home form was as good as anyone's. This year it's reversed. Yet I can't see anything between this year and last year that could explain that switch - nothing in our setup or approach that would let anyone say why it should be so; quite the opposite, given Torres goalscoring record has been significantly biased towards home games. It certainly seems to defy explanation as being due to rotation - it's inconsistency, to be sure, but not random inconsistency as you would expect from a cause common to both home and away games (Do we rotate more or less for home games or away? I'm sure some stat monkey can tell me).

 

The season we marry our best home and away records to date we will the win the league...

[Rimbeux]

I think what has happened this season is that teams are actually scared of Torres and sit very deep against us at home and let us have the ball, we've not found an answer. We're still much better at counter attacking when the oppo have come out, than breaking down packed defences, we dont have the individuals in key attacking areas to come up with the magic in those circumstances, we dont have the quick passing game to move the other team around and create chances.

 

I think we are actually a better team than last season in every respect, and are a player or two and a tweak away from being better than we were in 05/06 which should mean capable of touching 90 points.

[Dule]

I think you are spot on there rimbeux

[Magic8Ball]

It's an interesting factor in the Rafa argument, i.e. whether he gets English Football or not; first year we were poor away, and 2nd, his purchase of Peter Crouch was explicitly an attempt to play a new kind of game - an English game - and our away form was notably better. Last year our away form was pants, I have no explanation why, but our home form was as good as anyone's. This year it's reversed. Yet I can't see anything between this year and last year that could explain that switch - nothing in our setup or approach that would let anyone say why it should be so; quite the opposite, given Torres goalscoring record has been significantly biased towards home games. It certainly seems to defy explanation as being due to rotation - it's inconsistency, to be sure, but not random inconsistency as you would expect from a cause common to both home and away games (Do we rotate more or less for home games or away? I'm sure some stat monkey can tell me).

 

The season we marry our best home and away records to date we will the win the league...

faster attacking players help you win away from home - this year Torres and Babel

a defense that can play higher up the pitch helps you win at home - this year no Agger

[Magic8Ball]

I think what has happened this season is that teams are actually scared of Torres and sit very deep against us at home and let us have the ball, we've not found an answer. We're still much better at counter attacking when the oppo have come out, than breaking down packed defences, we dont have the individuals in key attacking areas to come up with the magic in those circumstances, we dont have the quick passing game to move the other team around and create chances.

 

I think we are actually a better team than last season in every respect, and are a player or two and a tweak away from being better than we were in 05/06 which should mean capable of touching 90 points.

I agree with that ! we are still short attacking 2 FB's and a RHS player for the 433 ( Currently Kuyt)

[realtarragona]

I think what has happened this season is that teams are actually scared of Torres and sit very deep against us at home and let us have the ball

 

That's nothing new to this season.

[honourablegeorge]

I think what has happened this season is that teams are actually scared of Torres and sit very deep against us at home and let us have the ball, we've not found an answer. We're still much better at counter attacking when the oppo have come out, than breaking down packed defences, we dont have the individuals in key attacking areas to come up with the magic in those circumstances, we dont have the quick passing game to move the other team around and create chances.

 

I think we are actually a better team than last season in every respect, and are a player or two and a tweak away from being better than we were in 05/06 which should mean capable of touching 90 points.

 

 

Thing is though, of those 6 home draws, in most cases, we took the lead. Birmingham aside, it wasn't really a case of battering in vain against a packed defence.

[Billy Dane]

According to Jonathan Northcroft in yesterday's Times, it is our away form which is screwing us up.......

 

Shadow over Rafael Benitez

 

To pose a genuine title threat Benitez must soon start winning at places like Bolton today

 

Jonathan Northcroft

 

When Rafael Benitez bought a £4m mansion last February, complete with swimming complex, snooker room, sauna and orangery, it was the most expensive house ever sold in the Wirral. On Wednesday, with a Champions League away game with Internazionale rescheduled because AC Milan are using the San Siro the previous evening, Benitez will be in his second, even more inspiring, home. Liverpool host West Ham at Anfield. How their manager must wish every Premier League game was in the stadium. For all his feats on trips in Europe, Benitez has travelled as successfully as Spanish pop music in domestic competition.

 

Only in his second season, 2005-06, did Liverpool have an away league record comparable with their rivals in the “Big Four”. Their mediocrity in the Premier League can be illustrated by their struggles at venues where Manchester United, Arsenal and Chelsea generally prosper.

 

Today the Reebok stadium beckons. It will look like Amityville or Castle Greyskull as the Liverpool bus turns off the M61. It was at the Reebok, in August 2004, that Benitez suffered his first reverse as a Premier League boss in a game in which new Spanish recruits Josemi, Xabi Alonso and Luis Garcia were buffeted by Bolton players fired up by Sam Allardyce. A shocked Benitez was left complaining that what he had seen was “not football”. Allardyce never forgave him for that, and with some glee beat Liverpool on their last trip to the stadium in September 2006.

 

Benitez visits other bogey grounds, St Andrews and Craven Cottage, before this campaign is out, and unless Liverpool improve away, where they have scored fewer goals than any side in the top seven heading into this weekend, they are unlikely to beat Everton, Aston Villa and Portsmouth in the dash for fourth place.

 

 

There is one Liverpool footballer whose form is good at the Reebok, but Danny Guthrie plays for Bolton, having joined them on a season-long loan in August. Benitez revealed that several clubs had inquired about buying the 20-year-old mid-fielder, but he is considering giving Guthrie another chance at Anfield. If that was a surprise, so was his disclosure that Sami Hyypia is to be offered a new contract. The Finn has had a renaissance this season, and how Liverpool needed it, with Daniel Agger beset by injuries and Martin Skrtel by what, on first impression, appears to be a simple lack of ability. But it was unexpected that Hyypia, at 34, would get the chance to sign on for a 10th season on Merseyside. “It’s my idea, so I will talk to [chief executive] Rick Parry and some people and it will be easy because everybody knows Sami has played well this year and he is a good professional, top-class. It will be good for him and good for us,” Benitez said.

 

Having also finally initiated talks with Peter Crouch over an extension and signed Javier Mascherano permanently, Benitez is looking to the future, despite present worries. Why the unforeseen movement in signings, not least regarding Mascherano, whose deal cost £18m to complete? Could it be that despite all the stories of Dubai Investment Capital (DIC) buying out Liverpool’s co-owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, and Benitez being on the brink of departing, those in charge of on- and off-pitch matters at Anfield suddenly feel ready to move forward together? It is understood that in recent weeks there has been a significant warming in relations between Benitez and Hicks, and that the Spaniard now regards the co-owners’ idea of sounding out Jurgen Klinsmann to replace him as having come from Gillett. Hicks was the one who admitted the approach to Klinsmann, and although Benitez might have preferred matters to remain in-house, he accepts that Hicks, if clumsily, at least acted with the good intentions of being open and honest with fans.

 

Gillett has dodged much of the fans’ anger about how their club is being run by simply staying quiet. Given that he is exploring selling his 50% stake to DIC and that his son, Foster, left Merseyside without fulfilling his role as conduit between the owners and Parry, Gillett can at best be said to have lost a degree of commitment towards Liverpool, whereas Hicks still talks about retaining power, building a new stadium and improving the club. Fans may not believe him, but until there is another takeover, his unlikely new alliance with Benitez at least offers the promise of greater stability. Benitez, when asked if he feels he can make Liverpool title challengers during the two years remaining on his contract, replied: “I have confidence I will be here for a long time, not just the two years, but for a long time.”

 

Asked if the offer of a new contract from Hicks might be imminent, he gave a sphinx-like smile. “I am just thinking about Bolton,” he said. “I am really pleased here and I think we will improve the situation in the future. I have confidence we will be better next year.”

 

That comment may not go down too well with Steven Gerrard, who caused ripples when venting frustrations in a club magazine interview. “We can’t keep talking about ‘next season’ all the time,” he said. Benitez was sanguine about his captain’s comments: “Steve was trying to be positive because I promise you, he was telling me the best-ever feeling he had was when he won the Champions League, so he knows the Champions League is a massive competition. He knows it will be a fantastic season if you can win the Champions League. But he knows we are not the best in the Premier League and we need to improve in the Premier League.”

 

Nowhere is that necessity more obvious than away from Anfield, at unvaunted grounds, in front of small, hostile crowds, facing lesser but determined opponents. Winning in such circumstances is what champions do. Liverpool, who have a worse away record than Everton, must start at the Reebok if they are to show credentials worthy of even fourth place.

[Will]

Surprisingly - a totally ludicrous article about us....

[abc]

I think what has happened this season is that teams are actually scared of Torres and sit very deep against us at home and let us have the ball, we've not found an answer. We're still much better at counter attacking when the oppo have come out, than breaking down packed defences, we dont have the individuals in key attacking areas to come up with the magic in those circumstances, we dont have the quick passing game to move the other team around and create chances.

 

I think we are actually a better team than last season in every respect, and are a player or two and a tweak away from being better than we were in 05/06 which should mean capable of touching 90 points.

 

We do have Benayoun who is excellent at quick passing and especially in tight areas. We need a couple more players who have quick feet and know how to beat their man and make play in tighter areas. Throw them on for home games, instruct fullbacks to bomb forward and more often than not we'll overrun teams.

[alias75]

I think it also shows how small details make all the difference at the top level. With the team we already have here with a bit more luck or better finishing we could have easily turned 4 or 5 of those home draws into wins thats an extra 8-10 points.

 

I agree that at home we need better players to break down teams that sit deep because of Torres, the frustrating thing has been in a lot of these home games we've taken the lead and from then on the game should be much easier. I think at home a lot of the space is out wide where better, more attacking fullbacks would help plus someone able to pick a pass or beat a man in tight situations.

 

The core of the team looks very strong and importantly its a very young core that could be here for the next 5-6 years with 1 or 2 quality additions theres every reason to be optimistic. We've still only lost 2 games in the league this season, the margin between winning and drawing a game is very small sometimes better players obviously help.

[muleskinner]

Utter rubbish about Skrtel.

[Guest Kaizer]

Away league:

1. Chelsea 14 9 2 3 19-9 29p

2. Man Utd 14 8 3 3 26-10 27p

3. Arsenal 13 7 5 1 25-12 26p

4. Liverpool 14 7 5 2 17-9 26p

5. Portsmouth 15 8 1 6 22-19 25p

6. Everton 14 7 3 4 19-12 24p

7. Blackburn 14 6 5 3 20-20 23p

8. Aston Villa 14 5 7 2 27-19 22p

9. West Ham Utd 13 6 2 5 15-10 20p

10. Manchester City 13 3 5 5 13-18 14p

 

We have a pretty good record away from home this season, but so do a lot of other teams as well to be honest.

 

Whats more interesting might be something I noticed earlier and thats goal difference at home, as we see we have the third best goal difference at home and we have only scored 3 goals less than the mancs and Arsenal, but we are still trailing behind because we have been real unlucky and conceded some soft goals from personal errors and poor referee decisons.

 

Goal difference at home:

1. Man Utd 14 32-5 27g

2. Arsenal 15 32-9 23g

3. Liverpool 13 29-11 18g

4. Chelsea 13 23-8 15g

4. Everton 14 27-12 15g

6. Tottenham 12 33-22 11g

7. Man City 15 21-13 8g

8. Aston Villa 14 24-17 7g

 

Home league:

1. Arsenal 15 12 3 0 32-9 39p

2. Man Utd 14 12 1 1 32-5 37p

3. Manchester City 15 9 4 2 21-13 31p

4. Everton 14 9 2 3 27-12 29p

5. Chelsea 13 8 5 0 23-8 29p

6. Aston Villa 14 8 2 4 24-17 26p

7. Liverpool 13 6 6 1 29-11 24p

8. Sunderland 13 7 3 3 17-13 24p

[Tommok]

Utter rubbish about Skrtel.

 

I thought this too.

 

In fact most of the report is rubbish.

[RedNik]

Away league:

1. Chelsea 14 9 2 3 19-9 29p

2. Man Utd 14 8 3 3 26-10 27p

3. Arsenal 13 7 5 1 25-12 26p

4. Liverpool 14 7 5 2 17-9 26p

5. Portsmouth 15 8 1 6 22-19 25p

6. Everton 14 7 3 4 19-12 24p

7. Blackburn 14 6 5 3 20-20 23p

8. Aston Villa 14 5 7 2 27-19 22p

9. West Ham Utd 13 6 2 5 15-10 20p

10. Manchester City 13 3 5 5 13-18 14p

 

We have a pretty good record away from home this season, but so do a lot of other teams as well to be honest.

 

Whats more interesting might be something I noticed earlier and thats goal difference at home, as we see we have the third best goal difference at home and we have only scored 3 goals less than the mancs and Arsenal, but we are still trailing behind because we have been real unlucky and conceded some soft goals from personal errors and poor referee decisons.

 

Goal difference at home:

1. Man Utd 14 32-5 27g

2. Arsenal 15 32-9 23g

3. Liverpool 13 29-11 18g

4. Chelsea 13 23-8 15g

4. Everton 14 27-12 15g

6. Tottenham 12 33-22 11g

7. Man City 15 21-13 8g

8. Aston Villa 14 24-17 7g

 

Home league:

1. Arsenal 15 12 3 0 32-9 39p

2. Man Utd 14 12 1 1 32-5 37p

3. Manchester City 15 9 4 2 21-13 31p

4. Everton 14 9 2 3 27-12 29p

5. Chelsea 13 8 5 0 23-8 29p

6. Aston Villa 14 8 2 4 24-17 26p

7. Liverpool 13 6 6 1 29-11 24p

8. Sunderland 13 7 3 3 17-13 24p

 

 

Here's another example of why stats don't tell the whole truth. Kaizer, of our 29 goals at home, 4 came against Portsmouth, 6 against Derby, 4 against Bolton, 3 against Boro and 3 against Sunderland - that's 20 of our 29 goals coming in 5 matches.

 

We still have been unable to put sides away at home - goalless against Birmingham, 1-1 with Wigan etc.

 

Mind you I agree we have conceded some soft goals that have lead to draws, but this is also partly because we've not been able to kill games off.

[_00_deathscar]

Here's another example of why stats don't tell the whole truth. Kaizer, of our 29 goals at home, 4 came against Portsmouth, 6 against Derby, 4 against Bolton, 3 against Boro and 3 against Sunderland - that's 20 of our 29 goals coming in 5 matches.

 

We still have been unable to put sides away at home - goalless against Birmingham, 1-1 with Wigan etc.

 

Mind you I agree we have conceded some soft goals that have lead to draws, but this is also partly because we've not been able to kill games off.

 

If our defence had been as watertight as it has the past few seasons, there wouldn't be a need to finish a game off 2-0.

 

It's not just about being watertight though, we've conceded some seriously shyte goals this season.

[hideNseek]

Not really had a settled defence all season though.

[RedNik]

If our defence had been as watertight as it has the past few seasons, there wouldn't be a need to finish a game off 2-0.

 

It's not just about being watertight though, we've conceded some seriously shyte goals this season.

 

Thats a manifestation of the problem though I think.

 

We rely on our defense not conceding and then maybe getting a goal. Shyte goals happen - if we were able to score more, we wouldn't be talking as much about them.

[_00_deathscar]

Chicken and egg.

 

Which brings me to a famous Rafa quote:

 

Interviewer: Rafa, would you rather win 2-0 or 4-2?

Rafa: I'd rather win 4-0.

 

Paraphrased of course, and I reckon we'll get there eventually. When we do, watch the f*** out.

Edited March 4, 2008 by _00_deathscar

[Rimbeux]

Thats a manifestation of the problem though I think.

 

We rely on our defense not conceding and then maybe getting a goal. Shyte goals happen - if we were able to score more, we wouldn't be talking as much about them.

 

Chicken and egg, but we are conceding more nonsense this year, scoring more goals, but still not enough.

[RedNik]

Chicken and egg, but we are conceding more nonsense this year, scoring more goals, but still not enough.

 

The larger point I was trying to bring up is that when we score, we score in heaps.

 

Our goalscoring hasn't been consistent enough.