Our squad

[Jim D]

Following on from the "Too many passengers" thread with a lot of good points and views made about the squad we have at our disposal, thought it would be interesting to classify our squad into three categories. Some of you may disagree with my selections but I think on the whole the majority will come out with roughly the same.

 

I have only taken the "first 22" so this list omits players who only have the odd game here and there and those that are still learning their trade in the reserves.

 

Indispensable

Gerrard

Torres

 

First Teamers

Finnan

Agger

Alonso

Mascherano

Carragher

Reina

 

Squad Players

Hyypia

Riise

Kewell

Voronin

Benayoun

Aurelio

Crouch

Pennant

Arbeloa

Kuyt

Babel

Leiva

Sissoko

Itandje

 

 

Basically this list says that we do not have enough quality throughout the whole team, we have far too many players listed under "Squad player" and less than half listed under "First Teamer" Also the majority of our attacking players are listed under "Squad player" where really we need them to be under "First Teamer". Question is which players under "Squad player" are good enough in their respective position to help Liverpool win a League title and who are the ones that need shipping out?

[Gunga Din]

central midfield and defence we are fine. could probably do with a new left back, and a new centre half as cover, buts its not as urgent as two good wingers and a partner for Torres

Edited January 3, 2008 by big wayne

[Guest Si]

Rafa has made a few decent buys, but in many ways he has created a large collection of squad players who are not capable of moving to the next level.

 

Whether that is because of financial restrictions or a lack of nous in the transfer market is a matter for debate.

[MFletcher]

Rafa has made a few decent buys, but in many ways he has created a large collection of squad players who are not capable of moving to the next level.

 

Whether that is because of financial restrictions or a lack of nous in the transfer market is a matter for debate.

 

It's the first scenario. He's bought players who have resale value, so that they can perform at a decent-good level for a year or two and be sold on, either at the same amount or for profit, and the proceeds included in the transfer fee of a superior player.

 

For instance, we bought Bellamy for £6M. He stayed for a year, was solid at a profit and we effectively bought Torres for £10.5M of our generated transfer budget.

 

It's a process that Rafa has taken us on and it will take another year or two to really see the benefits of it. He has assembled a squad with some excellent players. Provided he is given sufficient backing, we'll see the likes of Kuyt, Pennant etc. sold on and replaced by Torres-level signings.

Edited January 3, 2008 by MFletcher

[alias75]

Part of the problem is because he likes to rotate you need a bigger pool of better players, a manager that didnt believe in rotation as much could probably have a slightly smaller squad meaning we go with our better players more often are the fringe players dont play as often.

 

Id add Arbeloa to the first team group and of those in the "squad" im happy with Lucas, Babel, Aurellio, Hyppia, Benayoun. The problem is when these squad players are playing lots of games in the PL ideally your not relying on them as often as we are at the moment.

 

Your correct though we need more attacking players in that category of players that hardly gets rested we're so reliant on Gerrard and Torres to score and create it isnt fair on them. Our other attacking players need to step up and start delivering more than being neat and tidy and giving us a good shape, bottom line our wingers need to be getting assists and goals and they're not.

[Earl Hafler]

It's the first scenario. He's bought players who have resale value, so that they can perform at a decent-good level for a year or two and be sold on, either at the same amount or for profit, and the proceeds included in the transfer fee of a superior player.

 

For instance, we bought Bellamy for £6M. He stayed for a year, was solid at a profit and we effectively bought Torres for £10.5M of our generated transfer budget.

 

It's a process that Rafa has taken us on and it will take another year or two to really see the benefits of it. He has assembled a squad with some excellent players. Provided he is given sufficient backing, we'll see the likes of Kuyt, Pennant etc. sold on and replaced by Torres-level signings.

 

Then why did Pennant start tonight ? Why does Kuyt start many games and Babel get given one start out of position ?

[Gunga Din]

It's the first scenario. He's bought players who have resale value, so that they can perform at a decent-good level for a year or two and be sold on, either at the same amount or for profit, and the proceeds included in the transfer fee of a superior player.

 

For instance, we bought Bellamy for £6M. He stayed for a year, was solid at a profit and we, effectively bought Torres for £10.5M of our generated transfer budget.

 

It's a process that Rafa has taken us on and it will take another year or two to really see the benefits of it. He has assembled a squad with some excellent players. Provided he is given sufficient backing, we'll see the likes of Kuyt, Pennant etc. sold on and replaced by Torres-level signings.

its not championship manager. there is signing on fees, agent fees, wages etc to be paid on all these players coming in and going out. its not as simple as buy a player for 6 million, sell him for 8mil, hey ho a 2 million profit. its more like buy him for 6, give him half a million to sign, pay his agent another half million, give him 2 mil a year, then a golden handshake to leave as he hadnt handed in a transfer request, and in may cases pay part of his wages for a few years to get them off your books and all of a sudden you've got a pretty big deficit, and right now, our wage bill must be enormous

[Guest RedLegend]

Provided he is given sufficient backing, we'll see the likes of Kuyt, Pennant etc. sold on and replaced by Torres-level signings.

 

I doubt those two will make us a profit. We'll almost certainly lose money on them.

[Elisha_Scott]

We need a wide midfielder who can carry the ball at pace and produce something in the final third.

 

We need a centre forward to partner Torres, someone who has a bit of guile and subtlety, but not a lightweight, someone who can control the ball and keep it in tight situations.

 

We need a left back who is good defensively and can pick a pass too.

 

We need a centre half.

 

We need Agger fit ASAP.

 

I hate playing fantasy football, but Ribery would be great for us. If Berbatov wasn't such a c*** he would be perfect too, maybe if he was our c*** I wouldn't hate him as much.

 

Left back?

 

Centre half? I really Luisao at Benfica

[MFletcher]

Then why did Pennant start tonight ? Why does Kuyt start many games and Babel get given one start out of position ?

 

Because Rafa uses the players available to him. Many managers would have sent Bellamy home in disgrace after the golf club incident last year. Rafa dealt with it at the time and continued to use Bellamy in the team when he saw fit. If he wants a right winger to go to the byline, then he'll pick Pennant because he is the best available option at the club. When the time comes, he'll be sold on and someone will replace him.

[MFletcher]

its not championship manager. there is signing on fees, agent fees, wages etc to be paid on all these players coming in and going out. its not as simple as buy a player for 6 million, sell him for 8mil, hey ho a 2 million profit. its more like buy him for 6, give him half a million to sign, pay his agent another half million, give him 2 mil a year, then a golden handshake to leave as he hadnt handed in a transfer request, and in may cases pay part of his wages for a few years to get them off your books and all of a sudden you've got a pretty big deficit, and right now, our wage bill must be enormous

 

I was referring to transfer fees alone - quite clearly. Yes there are other expenses to be considered, but Rafa himself speaks of transfer fees separately - referring to the £26M we recouped in the summer as evidence that he didn't spend as much as the media would have you believe.

[alias75]

We need a wide midfielder who can carry the ball at pace and produce something in the final third.

 

We need a centre forward to partner Torres, someone who has a bit of guile and subtlety, but not a lightweight, someone who can control the ball and keep it in tight situations.

 

We need a left back who is good defensively and can pick a pass too.

 

We need a centre half.

 

We need Agger fit ASAP.

 

I hate playing fantasy football, but Ribery would be great for us. If Berbatov wasn't such a c*** he would be perfect too, maybe if he was our c*** I wouldn't hate him as much.

 

Left back?

 

Centre half? I really Luisao at Benfica

 

 

At least its glaringly obvious what we're lacking, id go for Quaresma, im sick of these hard working average players i want someone that thinks their the best in the world and has that arrogance that goes with it. He gets goals and assists which is more than any of our wingers, and is a player that is comfortable receiving the ball in tight situations and hes confident taking on defenders.

 

As a partner for Torres, Berbatov ticks a lot of boxes, again he may not have the greatest work ethic but he scores goals and produces moments of magic most games.

Edited January 3, 2008 by alias75

[RafaShanks]

Silva, Quaresma and Pandev would give us some serious bite in attack.

 

Whether we have the money for these is another question.

[12twelve]

We need a centre forward to partner Torres, someone who has a bit of guile and subtlety, but not a lightweight, someone who can control the ball and keep it in tight situations.

 

Gudjohnsen anyone? He will be the perfect foil for Torres.

[Guest Barcamania]

Gudjohnsen anyone? He will be the perfect foil for Torres.

Are you kidding? He's slow for Spanish league, let alone premiership. And he's no different to any of "10 million $ players". Do you honestly think that Gudjohnsen can win you league?

[Magic8Ball]

honestly ?

 

the squad is too big, we need a smaller squad of better players, sure this may give the manager less options but the options will be better ones. lets face it would you sooner have 4 ford escorts or 2 mercedes ? - that's part of the choice facing rafa. The other choice is for him to get roguesish and start playing with attack afore thought.

I think there is a quote from Babel saying he's never worked on defense so much before he came here.

Babel should be working mostly on attack, creating and scoring goals - not on learning to defending

[Guest MB_talklfc]

honestly ?

 

the squad is too big, we need a smaller squad of better players, sure this may give the manager less options but the options will be better ones. lets face it would you sooner have 4 ford escorts or 2 mercedes ? - that's part of the choice facing rafa. The other choice is for him to get roguesish and start playing with attack afore thought.

I think there is a quote from Babel saying he's never worked on defense so much before he came here.

Babel should be working mostly on attack, creating and scoring goals - not on learning to defending

 

Would it be wrong if I said Rafa were spoil for choices? Or he just being too smart trying to make everybody happy?

 

IMO we have a very decent squad. Comparing our squad to Arsenal, we should do better than those wenger's boy.

[baz2107]

We desperately need somebody to partner Torres somebody with guile and we need a wide player who can run with the ball and most importantly score goals, looking at last nights team sheet I knew we only had 2 players capable of scoring, compare that to the other sides in the top 4.

 

Quality attacking options are what we need, look at the Mancs and Arsenal, they sometimes go with the formation we played last night, but all of the 4 most forward players would score goals, last night we had 2. I reall can't understand why Babel didnt start on the right yesterday

[Rory Fitzgerald]

I wont argue with anything in this thread, I'd be just repeating what alot have said already.

[Cunny]

A damning indictment from Barrett's Echo match report

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-f...00252-20309232/

 

The biggest problem is a lack of goals from everyone apart from Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard.

 

Take the contribution of Liverpool’s two most effective attackers out of the equation and the other nine members of their starting line up last night have scored just two goals between them all season – and both of those were scored by Xabi Alonso in the 6-0 romp against Derby County.

 

To put that statistic into stark and, let’s face it, downright scary perspective, including last night’s equaliser the footballing freak show that is Titus Bramble has scored two in his last two games.

[Jim D]

Looking at the past two games, Boro and Wigan, I see no reason why my list should be amended in anyway, at this moment in time only Babel possibly would be upgraded to a "First teamer". It was great to see Babel willing to run at players and show some urgency in our attacking play. Voronin is gash and Riise well less said about him the better! Be interesting to see from the forum as a whole which of our "squad" players deserve to remain at the club and are good enough to challenge for a league title in their respective positions. Here's my feelings on the issue:

 

Squad Players

 

Hyypia - Been a great servant, be willing to give him another year, vast experience and is decent back up. KEEP

Riise - Chronically been out of form for around 2 yrs, not good enough. SELL

Kewell - Been plagued with injuries, had some glimpses of his old self but not consistent enough. SELL

Voronin - A promising start, but recently we are seeing his true level, not good enough SELL

Benayoun - A decent utility player, but i'm not sure what his best position is, willing to give him another year KEEP

Aurelio - Injury prone, a good left foot, decent free kick taker and a good crosser of the ball KEEP

Crouch - A good player, been frozen out by Rafa recently but he gives us a different option in attack, ideal sub KEEP

Pennant - Has shown some promise, a decent Premiership player but not good enough for a title winning team SELL

Arbeloa - Similar attributes to Aurelio, good going forward when allowed to, been recently played out of position KEEP

Kuyt - A great worker, can't fault the man for effort, but his confidence as a goalscorer has been shot to pieces SELL

Babel - A good start from Babel, scored a few off the bench, very positive and has a willingness to run at players KEEP

Leiva - One for the future, promising player, still lacking experience in the Premier League KEEP

Sissoko - Not been the same player since that eye injury against Benfica, distribution under pressure is woeful SELL

Itandje - Charlie has done well when called upon, crucial save against Luton recently, decent backup for Reina KEEP

[Earl Hafler]

Rafa has made a few decent buys, but in many ways he has created a large collection of squad players who are not capable of moving to the next level.

 

Whether that is because of financial restrictions or a lack of nous in the transfer market is a matter for debate.

 

I agree to an extent but Rafa has spent money on players that he's just not getting the best out of - it's not entirely down to lack of funds. Kuyt, Crouch, Benayoun and Babel are not in the same class as Man Utd's forwards but used more consistently, they'd be in better form and might improve the team as a whole - how many of Arsenal's players would you buy to put into our side ? I've always rated Clichy as a left back and would have him in a second but Flamini and Sagna ? Not really.

Both Man Utd and Arsenal have a more settled side, a more settled system and players are in better form - if they are dropped for a game or two, chances are they'll return in the same position for another run of games. Benayoun might play one game on the right, be dropped for two games and then start the next in another position.

 

 

Momo, Carson, Pennant, Riise and one of the second string strikers could be sold to finance a creative attacking player and a defender who would improve the side.

 

Rafa spent £20m in the summer on three players who hardly start and we're still using Pennant ( limited ), Kewell ( knackered ) and Voronin ( free and shows it )

 

Personally i agree with Wayne in that if Rafa doesn't win the CL, he's finished here under the current owners. There are many who say he needs more time and money but given how he's utilised the players he's bought this season, i have to wonder if it would matter at all.

 

He needs a good assistant, he needs to select a more settle team and he needs to shave that goatee off.

[surf]

Following on from the "Too many passengers" thread with a lot of good points and views made about the squad we have at our disposal, thought it would be interesting to classify our squad into three categories. Some of you may disagree with my selections but I think on the whole the majority will come out with roughly the same.

 

I have only taken the "first 22" so this list omits players who only have the odd game here and there and those that are still learning their trade in the reserves.

 

Indispensable

Gerrard

Torres

 

First Teamers

Finnan

Agger

Alonso

Mascherano

Carragher

Reina

 

Squad Players

Hyypia

Riise

Kewell

Voronin

Benayoun

Aurelio

Crouch

Pennant

Arbeloa

Kuyt

Sissoko

Itandje

 

Hot Prospects

Babel

Leiva

 

 

Basically this list says that we do not have enough quality throughout the whole team, we have far too many players listed under "Squad player" and less than half listed under "First Teamer" Also the majority of our attacking players are listed under "Squad player" where really we need them to be under "First Teamer". Question is which players under "Squad player" are good enough in their respective position to help Liverpool win a League title and who are the ones that need shipping out?

 

I've moved Babel and Leiva to a new category, cause i believe they have the ability to make become first teamers.

This seperates them from the squad players, all of who can leave if the offer is generous.

[MFletcher]

I agree that Babel should be starting more games now. The service from our wide areas and strikers (other than Torres obviously) has been poor in recent games. Very poor in the case of yesterday.

[Sir Tokyo Sexwale]

Babel - a squad player? f*** me.

 

And Lucas has done more than enough top show that his is a star in the making