Hate to say I told you so

[Molby]

here are the problems:

 

1. Net spend - only £15m, which was not enough to bridge a fairly big gap; said it then and said it now. We have only improved one position and that's with Torres up front

 

2. But ok, what will be will be, so what now? again I said we had a glimmer of a chance if we were lucky with injuries but at this moment in time we could not be more UNlucky because losing Xabi and Agger has been worse than losing Gerrard as our pattern has gone out the window, we can't pass it properly

 

3. We have not coped with point 2; instead we have carried on, business as usual and try to play the same way as we were but without the players who are capable of it

 

what we should have done:

 

1. signed wingers/wide players/attacking, overlapping full backs, cover in central defence - Alvez, Mica Richards, Quaresma etc - we did not and have NO PLAN B AND NO GOAL THREAT FROM WIDE

 

2. couldn't be helped

 

3. I always thought Rafa had different systems up his sleeve and that changing systems to suit the available personnel was his forte and am therefore disappointed that we keep banging our heads against this brick wall. There are a few variations that would be better than the present one

 

here are two that I would be trying if Xabi is not fit(big assumption here, on the first one as I am assuming Lucas can very soon offer most of what Gerrard does but is also more disciplined in ball retention and positional play)

 

team 1: Reina,

Finann, Carra, Hyypia, Riise/Arveloa (where is Insua?)

Gerrard Mascherano Lucas Sissoko Benayoun

Crouch

 

 

team 2 - actually let's talk about that later (nb, in team 1, Gerrad has a free role attacking, as long as he is around to provide the outlest when absolutely necessary and to cover his wing when we are attacked)

Edited October 25, 2007 by Molby

[Gunga Din]

the thing that frustrates the hell out of me is this. i think, and i genuinely believe this, that we have a squad of players, capable of winning the league.

 

the problem is that they have ben rotated so much, played with that many different players that they havent bedded in, and now we have a situation where practical;ly every player is ou of form and looks low in confidence.

[Molby]

the thing that frustrates the hell out of me is this. i think, and i genuinely believe this, that we have a squad of players, capable of winning the league.

 

the problem is that they have ben rotated so much, played with that many different players that they havent bedded in, and now we have a situation where practical;ly every player is ou of form and looks low in confidence.

 

 

maybe a bit of that but I'm telling you, we did not spend enough or in the right areas to deal with any kind of injury crisis

 

ergo we would have needed a lot of luck and we have not had it

 

it's still doable but if we don't get everyone back fit and keep them that way then we need to rethink our tactics - not just rotation

 

eg Babel - when he came I though 'great - exciting wide player who can also play inside forward'

 

and he's no winger and we still have no wingers who do all the things wingers should do, except Kewell

[Knox_Harrington]

If Alonso's unfit then Lucas and Benayoun both need to play. That's your Plan B.

 

Agree on the brick wall. That's what's been so shocking.

[Florist Cinema Pond Goal]

i think, and i genuinely believe this, that we have a squad of players, capable of winning the league.

 

I totally agree.

 

The problem however does not lie with rotation as such but not picking the right combination of players. Play an off form Gerrard with Masch or Sissoko in centre mid, or play Kuyt with Voronin and you're asking for disappointment.

[D.Boon]

Im far from convinced we have a strong enough squad. Too many mediocre players getting regular starts

 

Id like to see this given a try for a few games when Alonso is fit though. Its solid but with real attacking potential

 

.......Masch....Alonso

 

Benayoun....Gerrard.......Babel

 

..............Torres

[Knox_Harrington]

Im far from convinced we have a strong enough squad. Too many mediocre players getting regular starts

 

Id like to see this given a try for a few games when Alonso is fit though. Its solid but with real attacking potential

 

.......Masch....Alonso

 

Benayoun....Gerrard.......Babel

 

..............Torres

If that middle three has the license to switch about I'd agree. Benayoun has looked the part. It's what makes me think we actually do have a strong enough squad. As outlined elsewhere by me (boring again) there's an effective second team to that:

 

.........Sissoko......Lucas

 

Kuyt..........Voronin.........Kewell

 

.................Crouch

 

That's ignoring Pennant who is also good enough for the squad - just shoehorning both of Kuyt and Voronin in. Let's settle into the shape and then interchange around it. All seven who could be in the 3 across are able to play either flank or just off the front or all three. Let's use that to our advantage. There were hints of that last night. Obviously if Crouch plays we need a bit more pace from deep. Also think that shape gives the fullbacks more room to bomb on.

[D.Boon]

If that middle three has the license to switch about I'd agree. Benayoun has looked the part. It's what makes me think we actually do have a strong enough squad. As outlined elsewhere by me (boring again) there's an effective second team to that:

 

.........Sissoko......Lucas

 

Kuyt..........Voronin.........Kewell

 

.................Crouch

 

That's ignoring Pennant who is also good enough for the squad - just shoehorning both of Kuyt and Voronin in. Let's settle into the shape and then interchange around it. All seven who could be in the 3 across are able to play either flank or just off the front or all three. Let's use that to our advantage. There were hints of that last night. Obviously if Crouch plays we need a bit more pace from deep. Also think that shape gives the fullbacks more room to bomb on.

 

We have a boat load of link players and 2 out and out strikers. Play to the squads strengths. Surprised we have not seen it yet

[Knox_Harrington]

We have a boat load of link players and 2 out and out strikers. Play to the squads strengths. Surprised we have not seen it yet

We have seen it. That's where Kuyt is playing when he plays with Torres. What we haven't seen - except against Derby - is two deep-lying centre mids, one of whom can really pass the ball and control a game, allowing wide players to push right up. It was only Derby, however. There have been hints of it. The problems have come when the centre mid and forward partnerships have been unbalanced. Gerrard only works with Alonso seemingly - should be used for his devastating ability in the final third - and Mascherano only with Alonso and probably Lucas. Kuyt and Voronin both need to be in the lines.

 

It's the way I'd go till January and probably beyond.

[The walters step over]

maybe a bit of that but I'm telling you, we did not spend enough or in the right areas to deal with any kind of injury crisis

 

ergo we would have needed a lot of luck and we have not had it

 

it's still doable but if we don't get everyone back fit and keep them that way then we need to rethink our tactics - not just rotation

 

eg Babel - when he came I though 'great - exciting wide player who can also play inside forward'

 

and he's no winger and we still have no wingers who do all the things wingers should do, except Kewell

 

Did we really only spend £15m net? There was a lot of spin during the summer about the amounts spent by Hicks/Gillette but that figure does surprise me. Tbh, I didn't give football much thought over summer but from the impression given (esp. by Parry) I did take the £40m+ at face value.

[Guest Kaizer]

Did we really only spend £15m net? There was a lot of spin during the summer about the amounts spent by Hicks/Gillette but that figure does surprise me. Tbh, I didn't give football much thought over summer but from the impression given (esp. by Parry) I did take the £40m+ at face value.

 

No it was more like £25mill.

[The walters step over]

No it was more like £25mill.

 

Goes to show, when you're off your t*ts on morphine you'll believe anything you read/dreamt the night before

[Molby]

No it was more like £25mill.

 

could well be

 

without wishing to sound flippant about tens of millions, I knew we would have to spend upwards of £75m gross to bridge the gap this year

 

i..e Alvez, Micah Richards, Quaresma or similar, Torres, Tevez

 

job done

 

job f***ing well done..what was the problem?

[Kite]

here are the problems:

 

1. Net spend - only £15m, which was not enough to bridge a fairly big gap; said it then and said it now. We have only improved one position and that's with Torres up frontnd to cover his wing when we are attacked)

 

Net spend has nothing to do with anything - had we sold no-one, we'd still be in this position. The only thing we really failed to do this summer was get cover in for Carra. Don't know why Rafa was so convinced we'd get Heinze and did not get a "plan B" for that issue.

 

Lucas should be playing Alonso's role while he is out. Gerrard should be out right. Kuyt and Voronin don't play well together, shouldn't be playing together. There's angles there that Rafa is not looking at, for whatever reason, but the squad itself holds loads of promise once we get Carra cover in.

Edited October 25, 2007 by Mr Kite

[Molby]

Net spend has nothing to do with anything - had we sold no-one, we'd still be in this position. The only thing we really failed to do this summer was get cover in for Carra. Don't know why Rafa was so convinced we'd get Heinze and did not get a "plan B" for that issue.

 

Lucas should be playing Alonso's role while he is out. Gerrard should be out right. Kuyt and Voronin don't play well together, shouldn't be playing together. There's angles there that Rafa is not looking at, for whatever reason, but the squad itself holds loads of promise once we get Carra cover in.

 

net spend IS important in terms of commercial reality - and that's why I always refer to it

 

i.e under Moores I thought we could never compete in the transfer market which is why I wanted him to leave - no law saying that he is morally obliged to spend x amount

 

with the G and H I think maybe £50m net would have been reasonable and £70m even better

 

we still need width, either wingers or fast attacking fullbacks or a deep forward a la Beardsley (and I can only think of Tevez) won't get by without either as we will never get enough goals from midfield otherwise

[Guest Kaizer]

Net spend has nothing to do with anything - had we sold no-one, we'd still be in this position. The only thing we really failed to do this summer was get cover in for Carra. Don't know why Rafa was so convinced we'd get Heinze and did not get a "plan B" for that issue.

 

Lucas should be playing Alonso's role while he is out. Gerrard should be out right. Kuyt and Voronin don't play well together, shouldn't be playing together. There's angles there that Rafa is not looking at, for whatever reason, but the squad itself holds loads of promise once we get Carra cover in.

 

The Heinze saga amazes me as well, not that I wanted Heinze, but I wanted someone, and I thought from day one that this deal would never happen, I think we were naive at best when it came to this deal and the fact we did not have a second option lined up when the most possible outcome was a reality.

 

If we had sold no one we would have had a player like Garcia in particular to help us out when we struggled to create anything.

 

I have a feeling Kewell`s new injury hit us hard, and that Rafa like in the Heinze case went all in instead of hedging his options, as strange as it sounds with Kewells history.

[Knox_Harrington]

The Heinze saga amazes me as well, not that I wanted Heinze, but I wanted someone, and I thought from day one that this deal would never happen, I think we were naive at best when it came to this deal and the fact we did not have a second option lined up when the most possible outcome was a reality.

 

If we had sold no one we would have had a player like Garcia in particular to help us out when we struggled to create anything.

 

I have a feeling Kewell`s new injury hit us hard, and that Rafa like in the Heinze case went all in instead of hedging his options, as strange as it sounds with Kewells history.

Think all this is fair.

[Kite]

net spend IS important in terms of commercial reality - and that's why I always refer to it

 

i.e under Moores I thought we could never compete in the transfer market which is why I wanted him to leave - no law saying that he is morally obliged to spend x amount

 

with the G and H I think maybe £50m net would have been reasonable and £70m even better

 

we still need width, either wingers or fast attacking fullbacks or a deep forward a la Beardsley (and I can only think of Tevez) won't get by without either as we will never get enough goals from midfield otherwise

I don't agree with the notion that wide players are/were a must. It's a perfectly respectable gambit to play through the middle and we do have some very talented and intelligent players who can play in areas between midfield and forward.

 

Ultimately, of course the crucial thing is getting the "right" players but also getting them to play at their fullest potential. It's the latter being that, for me, has us mired now: too few players playing anywhere near their peak. However, there is a strong argument that the reason for that lies mainly at the managers feet. If true, it would not have mattered how much was spent, unless we get players playing their best, in positions from which they are effective, we will not compete.

[Mike]

you know, friendship aside and all that, molbys f***ing good isnt he

*sniff*

[abc]

Not enough pace, or excellent technique on the ball, and we have only two players in the squad who can do both - Torres and Gerrard.

 

When we're under pressure we need a couple of players who can take the ball and hold on to it, maybe turn with it and individually beat their man. Gerrard last night I thought was supposed to do that but sat too deep and played too many long passes out to isolated teammates who had no skill to pose enough threat, and worse still despite that, no support.

 

I think Gerrard could have pulled us out of the hole we were in if he played smarter and worked with the likes of Kuyt, Voronin and Benayoun's link play to get himself into good positions more often, like he did for his two chances. He needs to play quick and short one-two's in the attacking third and not spread the ball out wide or across the pitch. Like Rafa said, more brains.

[Stevie H]

sweet jesus this is depressing.

 

[Mike]

embrace the s***ness

dont be afraid of your s***ness!

[Stevie H]

paint fence. sand floor.

[Earl Hafler]

wax on, wax off.

[Mike]

im free to do what i want any old time

 

don't be afraid of your s***ness

 

so we're s***. so what.

its our s***.