Next time you rotate

[Romario]

I do agree that some of the decisions have been surprising, yes. And all is not rosy. What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that it's not THAT bad.

And Manu have had a long time to assemble a squad with class players, so they would then arguably be a bit less affected by injuries to key players.

 

Like if we actually do get 2 more class players last summer, so that we have a total of 4 (Gerrard, Torres, plus the two new ones), then we would not be hit THAT hard by injuries to the best players we have. Does that kinda make sense? Or am I rambling here?

Look at the current ManU team. So many new players playing great football. How many of them were playing for ManU when Rafa took over. Evrra, Vidic,Nani,Anderson,Ronaldo? Rooney? Hargreves, Carrick,VDV? Tevez. That's 10 players right there.

[Guest Ant]

Maybe. Maybe Pako had a load of s**** points to make and Rafa didn't listen to him

Maybe He knocked Steven Gerrard out in the showers

Maybe he had a row with Parry about his ties

 

I don't know, you don't know

Whats your point?

 

I don't know but my perception of Rafa current suggests Pako probably made a just point but Rafa being as stubborn as he is didn't like it?

 

Mind you, you probably think Pako probably tried to humilte Rafa or such b******s.

 

I don't think Pako would just leave, but then again

Edited October 31, 2007 by Ant

[pipnasty]

It would of been an even better result if we had beaten Spurs and Birmingham though?

 

Whats the point in beating the likes of Everton and Drawing or Winning with title fellow challengers when you can't even beat the smaller teams at home?

 

Of course it would have been better to beat Spurs and Birmingham - it would have been even better if we had beaten Chelsea and Arsenal 5-0 each too.

[Guest Ant]

Of course it would have been better to beat Spurs and Birmingham - it would have been even better if we had beaten Chelsea and Arsenal 5-0 each too.

 

Very much so, but we didn't did we?

 

We dropped points, no matter which way you look at it.

Our record v the other 3 of the top 4 is abysmal...

[muleskinner]

I don't know but my perception of Rafa current suggests Pako probably made a just point but Rafa being as stubborn as he is didn't like it?

 

Mind you, you probably think Pako probably tried to humilating or such b******s.

 

You believe what ever you want to believe.

[Dan]

The buck stops with the manager this seaosn, regardless of what results we have.

 

If we win lose or draw I will hold the manager responsible.

 

I'm still waiting for your reply (See what I did there )

 

Was it Rafa's fault Chelsea got the pen?

 

Was it Rafa's fault Carra, Hyypia and Finnan played sh*te against Spurs?

 

Was it Rafa's fault Voronin and Gerrard decided to tickle each others b*llocks instead of putting the ball in the net in the same game?

 

Was it Rafa's fault that Alonso and Torres both got injured against Arsenal?

 

I agree over the course of the season the buck ultimately stops with manager but he can't be blamed for everything that happens on the pitch week in week out. Your black and white stance is staggering!

[cymrococh]

I don't know but my perception of Rafa current suggests Pako probably made a just point but Rafa being as stubborn as he is didn't like it?

 

Mind you, you probably think Pako probably tried to humilating or such b******s.

a just point about what? Pako was very pro-rotation.

 

and in reference to your rant in the rant room. You need to spell properly so people understand what you're saying, your second sentence makes no sense.

[Guest Ant]

You believe what ever you want to believe.

 

I'm not believing anything, just speculating...

[pipnasty]

or you could say that comparing 3 clubs no longer in the League to results against completely different sides is really pointless

 

You could also say that comparing exact fixtures is pointless too especially when Rafa's teams have traditionally shopwn to be slow starters but good finishers, possibly by design. This season we have had a pretty good start (for Liverpool) and the plan would obviously be to continue this and couple it to a good finish and then see where we end up.

[pipnasty]

Our record v the other 3 of the top 4 is abysmal...

 

 

It's not good but it is also not the be all and end all either. It doesn't really prove anything other than our ecord v the other 3 of the top 4 is abysmal. I think that Arsenal probaly had the best record against the top 3 last season and they won what exactly?

[Guest Ant]

You could also say that comparing exact fixtures is pointless too especially when Rafa's teams have traditionally shopwn to be slow starters but good finishers, possibly by design. This season we have had a pretty good start (for Liverpool) and the plan would obviously be to continue this and couple it to a good finish and then see where we end up.

 

It's been an average at best start not a good start at all

[Cobs]

You could also say that comparing exact fixtures is pointless too especially when Rafa's teams have traditionally shopwn to be slow starters but good finishers, possibly by design. This season we have had a pretty good start (for Liverpool) and the plan would obviously be to continue this and couple it to a good finish and then see where we end up.

you could well do

 

and i'd agree

 

which is my point when people start trotting out meaningless stats designed only to show positive points.

 

 

 

I don't think this is a good start, i see poor form, poor performances and points dropped against schite teams which is going to cost us over the course of the season. 6/10

[bonna7]

Look at the current ManU team. So many new players playing great football. How many of them were playing for ManU when Rafa took over. Evrra, Vidic,Nani,Anderson,Ronaldo? Rooney? Hargreves, Carrick,VDV? Tevez. That's 10 players right there.

 

Then I would reply that they have spent a hell of a lot more money from a stronger base. Hence giving them a clear advantage.

 

And I would also say that we have a few new good players too, like Agger, Torres, Alonso, Arbeloa, Babel, Mascherano, Lucas and Reina, that's 8 right there, from a weaker base with LESS money to spend, I might add...

 

(I include Arbeloa, Babel and Lucas as you have included Nani and Anderson for Manu, which look good, but are only young, like Babel and Lucas especially)

[Gunga Din]

you could well do

 

and i'd agree

 

which is my point when people start trotting out meaningless stats designed only to show positive points.

I don't think this is a good start, i see poor form, poor performances and points dropped against schite teams which is going to cost us over the course of the season. 6/10

 

and i think thats a bang on assessment

[muleskinner]

I'm not believing anything, just speculating...

 

You are speculating what you like to think happened so you can use it as something else to criticise the manager with.

[Guest Ant]

Then I would reply that they have spent a hell of a lot more money from a stronger base. Hence giving them a clear advantage.

 

And I would also say that we have a few new good players too, like Agger, Torres, Alonso, Arbeloa, Babel, Mascherano, Lucas and Reina, that's 8 right there, from a weaker base with LESS money to spend, I might add...

 

(I include Arbeloa, Babel and Lucas as you have included Nani and Anderson for Manu, which look good, but are only young, like Babel and Lucas especially)

 

Then if they are the equivalent which I agree with, why isn't Rafa playing them as regular as SAF is?

 

Rotation....

[fred milne]

cos we didn't play them last year

Granted but then I don't see how it can be used in support of the argument "there's been no improvement as we're as well/bad off as we were last season when we finished 21 points behind the winners".

[Kite]

It's just turning into runny bollix this thread. If we don't get a magic "X" amount of points, sack Rafa ... accepting fourth is equivalent of being a Spurs supporter whereas wanting to swap the manager when things aren't all shiny isn't?

 

Rafa has just got over the first summer where he had a bit of free reign to purchase the players he really wanted, he notably bought young players (bar the one astute exception) that will take two to three seasons to mature to their full potential. He isn't playing them all, all the time, so sack Rafa. Maybe they haven't gelled - doesn't matter, sack Rafa. Maybe he wants to keep gimps from giving them a hard time if they fail to excel immediately and wants to let them mature without undue pressure? f*** them, sack Rafa.

 

We don't really know what happens in the club or on the training ground. Exactly, Sack Rafa. Rafa has lost his assistant of eleven years and the effect is still indeterminate but obviously of some significance. Yes, now sack Rafa too.

 

We get over two difficult fixtures with good results even though in the last we get the dual disaster of losing two of the most important players in the squad, one right at the outset of the game messing up the gameplan entirely. Sack Rafa.

 

It's pure f***ing madness this.

[Cobs]

Granted but then I don't see how it can be used in support of the argument "there's been no improvement as we're as well/bad off as we were last season when we finished 21 points behind the winners".

it wasn't - i left them out of it

[Guest Ant]

You are speculating what you like to think happened so you can use it as something else to criticise the manager with.

 

Not really just trying to prove a point regarding Pako

 

If people say Pako's departure is having an effect whats to say it wasn't Rafa that caused such an action?

[fred milne]

it wasn't - i left them out of it

Come again?

[Cobs]

Come again?

i didn't use those fixtures against Sunderland, Brum, Derby cos we didn't play them last year

[fred milne]

It's just turning into runny bollix this thread. If we don't get a magic "X" amount of points, sack Rafa ... accepting fourth is equivalent of being a Spurs supporter whereas wanting to swap the manager when things aren't all shiny isn't?

 

Rafa has just got over the first summer where he had a bit of free reign to purchase the players he really wanted, he notably bought young players (bar the one astute exception) that will take two to three seasons to mature to their full potential. He isn't playing them all, all the time, so sack Rafa. Maybe they haven't gelled - doesn't matter, sack Rafa. Maybe he wants to keep gimps from giving them a hard time if they fail to excel immediately and wants to let them mature without undue pressure? f*** them, sack Rafa.

 

We don't really know what happens in the club or on the training ground. Exactly, Sack Rafa. Rafa has lost his assistant of eleven years and the effect is still indeterminate but obviously of some significance. Yes, now sack Rafa too.

 

We get over two difficult fixtures with good results even though in the last we get the dual disaster of losing two of the most important players in the squad, one right at the outset of the game messing up the gameplan entirely. Sack Rafa.

 

It's pure f***ing madness this.

Good post.

[cymrococh]

I don't think this is a good start, i see poor form, poor performances and points dropped against schite teams which is going to cost us over the course of the season. 6/10

That is all true, Rafa has made mistakes AFAIC.

 

Blaming it all on ROTATON(sic) is not correct though.

[Guest Ant]

It's just turning into runny bollix this thread. If we don't get a magic "X" amount of points, sack Rafa ... accepting fourth is equivalent of being a Spurs supporter whereas wanting to swap the manager when things aren't all shiny isn't?

 

I think the opposite, people are more concentrated in trying to convince eachother Rafa is not at fault instead of pointing out what is indeed at fault. You would swear we ourselves where the best team in the world by some people opinions and their in-abilities to criticise, If it isn't Rafa Guys who is or what is causing this poor displays?