Gerrard's honours list snub

[floyd]

I'd rather he get the Goal of the month honour, than being honoured by those inbred fvckers.

[cliff p]

i didnt think they would be able to turn it down, as that was the reason the act was brought in ??!!

 

there has to be special cause to reject an application out right

 

ie as in the interest of national security.

[cymrococh]

It was because gangsters in Liverpool wouldn't let him have it.

[Benitez]

why Gerrard anyway? It went from Gerrard, Carragher and Rafa, to just Gerrard since this whole thing started.

 

If anyone should get an honour (and its a load of old bollards, so it aint that important), its the team manager, not one of the players.

 

I think its a total farce that any footballer should be honoured like this. Giving awards to multi millionaire footballers who are waited on hand and foot, and who'd daily grind consists of a couple training sessions and a game at the weekend, maybe one on a Wednesday in a busy week - and they deserve honouring? Don't think so. Farcical.

[Rich Gobey]

why Gerrard anyway? It went from Gerrard, Carragher and Rafa, to just Gerrard since this whole thing started.

 

If anyone should get an honour (and its a load of old bollards, so it aint that important), its the team manager, not one of the players.

 

I think its a total farce that any footballer should be honoured like this. Giving awards to multi millionaire footballers who are waited on hand and foot, and who'd daily grind consists of a couple training sessions and a game at the weekend, maybe one on a Wednesday in a busy week - and they deserve honouring? Don't think so. Farcical.

 

I agree.

 

give 'em to pop stars, soap stars and politicians.

[cymrococh]

I agree.

 

give 'em to pop stars, soap stars and politicians.

Nonsense, nurses and teachers deserve this kind of thing far more.

[New York Red]

I sincerely hope he'd tell them to shove it up their *rses.

[_00_deathscar]

Giving awards to multi millionaire footballers who are waited on hand and foot, and who'd daily grind consists of a couple training sessions and a game at the weekend, maybe one on a Wednesday in a busy week - and they deserve honouring? Don't think so. Farcical.

 

Bullf*ckings***!

[JohnnyH]

So why was he snubbed and would he accept it anyway ?

 

 

The way he was belting out God save the Queen during the World Cup suggests that he would most certainly accept it.

[Guest sniffer]

Had a quick look for this on here but couldn't see anything so...

 

Apparently there was a Freedom Of Information Act request yesterday for the publication of papers relating to Gerrard - and it was turned down.

The Department Of Culture, Media and Sport had him as one of their first recommendations but don't know why Gerrard did not receive his honour.

 

So why was he snubbed and would he accept it anyway ?

 

Should ask Sir Bobby Robson if I was you - he was on the selection committee. No-one knows why he has been snubbed but the word 'gangster' was mentioned a while back when this story first cropped up. Can't believe that.

[Rich Gobey]

Nonsense, nurses and teachers deserve this kind of thing far more.

 

And pop stars.

[McBain]

nope

Edited July 15, 2006 by Mcbain

[Guest roger]

The system is corrupt. They throw in a few old lollipop ladies (for some minor awards) to throw you off the scent.

 

[New York Red]

The honours list is a symptom of and antiquated class structure that has held back Britain for decades if not centuries.

 

It is a complete and utter bunch of sh*t.

[Archangel]

The honours list is a symptom of and antiquated class structure that has held back Britain for decades if not centuries.

 

It is a complete and utter bunch of sh*t.

 

 

Edited July 15, 2006 by Splint

[New York Red]

f*** me I thought Allerton came out with some perposterous b****x. Britain is in the dark ages because of honours.

 

I didn't say that at all.

 

Britain hasn't been able to fulfill its true potential because of the preposterous class system which is still in effect (though thankfully being broken down gradually). The honours system is a symptom of it. The ruling class throwing trinkets at the rabble to keep them happy.

 

F*ck that.

[Repington]

The honours list is a symptom of and antiquated class structure that has held back Britain for decades if not centuries.

 

It is a complete and utter bunch of sh*t.

 

 

Complete nonsense.

Every nation develops an honours system of some description; see for example the status of the Freedom Medal in the U.S. & the Legion d'Honeur in France - neither republic was exactly founded upon the basis of an ossified social stratification.

As to Britain being held back by an antiquated class structure did Britain inherit her Empire directly from Rome? If you actually knew anything about British history in the 18th & 19th centuries you would know that one reason for Britain's success in establishing a global empire was her relatively open social structure. To provide merely one example there is in London a rather large monument to a member of the aristocracy who was born the son of a parson in Norfolk; his name was Horatio Nelson.

[fyds]

Complete nonsense.

Every nation develops an honours system of some description; see for example the status of the Freedom Medal in the U.S. & the Legion d'Honeur in France - neither republic was exactly founded upon the basis of an ossified social stratification.

As to Britain being held back by an antiquated class structure did Britain inherit her Empire directly from Rome? If you actually knew anything about British history in the 18th & 19th centuries you would know that one reason for Britain's success in establishing a global empire was her relatively open social structure. To provide merely one example there is in London a rather large monument to a member of the aristocracy who was born the son of a parson in Norfolk; his name was Horatio Nelson.

The Freedom medal and Legion d'honeur are not class based though and are given by a citizen (President or Consul) and not by an unelected hereditary Monarch (in name at least) to assimilate you as a member, to the order of, commander of a British Empire that doesn't exist.

 

I agree state honours need not be a bad thing and as you say, the Legion d'Honeur is a decent example, but equating our system of populist or time-server baubles to that one is a non-sequitor.

 

The honours system in this country as it stands is as outdated, antiquated and class ridden as the House of Lords, and in that much NYR is right - if we are to have a system of state honours it needs to be overhauled massively, have nothing to do with a fictional 'British Empire' or time-serving civil servants and other such laissez faire patronage and be based on merit, preferably awarded by an independent panel and not the political party and cabinet secretary/monarch of the day.

[Guest Budo]

f*** me I thought Allerton came out with some perposterous b****x. Britain is in the dark ages because of honours.

 

These days the old class system has been replaced with the new class system - Your Credit Rating.

[floyd]

The Freedom medal and Legion d'honeur are not class based though and are given by a citizen (President or Consul) and not by an unelected hereditary Monarch (in name at least) to assimilate you as a member, to the order of, commander of a British Empire that doesn't exist.

 

I agree state honours need not be a bad thing and as you say, the Legion d'Honeur is a decent example, but equating our system of populist or time-server baubles to that one is a non-sequitor.

 

The honours system in this country as it stands is as outdated, antiquated and class ridden as the House of Lords, and in that much NYR is right - if we are to have a system of state honours it needs to be overhauled massively, have nothing to do with a fictional 'British Empire' or time-serving civil servants and other such laissez faire patronage and be based on merit, preferably awarded by an independent panel and not the political party and cabinet secretary/monarch of the day.

 

Says it all really.

[Mike]

Complete nonsense.

Every nation develops an honours system of some description; see for example the status of the Freedom Medal in the U.S. & the Legion d'Honeur in France - neither republic was exactly founded upon the basis of an ossified social stratification.

As to Britain being held back by an antiquated class structure did Britain inherit her Empire directly from Rome? If you actually knew anything about British history in the 18th & 19th centuries you would know that one reason for Britain's success in establishing a global empire was her relatively open social structure. To provide merely one example there is in London a rather large monument to a member of the aristocracy who was born the son of a parson in Norfolk; his name was Horatio Nelson.

 

great post

[New York Red]

Complete nonsense.

Every nation develops an honours system of some description; see for example the status of the Freedom Medal in the U.S. & the Legion d'Honeur in France - neither republic was exactly founded upon the basis of an ossified social stratification.

As to Britain being held back by an antiquated class structure did Britain inherit her Empire directly from Rome? If you actually knew anything about British history in the 18th & 19th centuries you would know that one reason for Britain's success in establishing a global empire was her relatively open social structure. To provide merely one example there is in London a rather large monument to a member of the aristocracy who was born the son of a parson in Norfolk; his name was Horatio Nelson.

 

Admiral Hood was the son of a vicar also. The clergy was every bit a part of the establishment as anyone in those days (as they still are today if you ask me). Feel free to throw some more examples of the egalitarianism of British society in those days, but also be sure to name the vast percentage that were from the ruling classes. Try and take a look at the profiles of the General staff of the British Army and see the prevelence of the public school crowd. It's not proprtionate whatsoever.

 

The honours system is a product of a monarchy and a ruling class that have systematically held on to power in the UK. It isn't the product of a democratically elected government who has decided to award the standard bearers of a nation.

 

I wouldn't want to be condescending towards you about my knowledge of British history, suffice to say I am confident I can give you a run for your money. Britains success in establishing their global empire was more a result of establishing a brilliant system of colonization and a dominant navy which gave it unprecedented flexibility. A ferociously effective army stratified by an aristocratic officer corps and a deferential and obedient infantry.

 

The honours system is utter nonsense in its present form. Take a look at Charlie next time he is in a military parade and see his medals. You'd think he was Ghengis Khan to see all the medals on his chest.

[fyds]

 

Says it all really.

Doesn't it just, though...

 

NYR makes a valid point as a cursory record check of even the last ten years shows, in terms of what honours go where. Yes there are usually a handful of high-profile 'owned by the public figures' by way of actors, musicians, sportsmen etc, and a smattering of headmasters, lollypop ladies, sub-postoffice mistresses and so forth - but the vast majority are made up of politicians, business 'leaders', military people, ex Chief or deputy chief constables, public school or redbrick University dons and by far the biggest section, the civil service (so much so it seems like a public school time server's list of expected perks) - they also get the 'best' or highest honours overall. It's not an equitablwe system at all, and certainly not a meritocracy.

 

Keir Hardie once described the British honours system (or as he always used to call it, 'the Royal bequest to 'worthy' subjects') as a 'Backslapper's and Fawner's Charter'. It may not be quite that bad anymore, but it's nowhere near what it should be if it's to continue and have and currency for most people today.

[fyds]

Repington: The 18th and 19th Centuries didn't see an opening of the class structure at all - it saw the emergence of a 'new' class - the middle class proper, as rigid and self conscious as the aritocratic class it aspired to be and imitated in it's love of building monumental houses and effigies to their own egos, lusting after the recognition they craved that would lift them above the hoi-polloi. Few ever where (at the time) excepted fully into 'polite society' though, but their mills, foundries and shipyards were eseential to the empire as was, so what harm would it do to keep them on board? Throw Davy a Knighthood, Armstrong and his munitions factory a Lordship etc - just don't let them handle the silver. Meanwhile, the real power lay where it had always lain.

 

True, a few such as Cadbury and other progressives had humanistic agendas, though of course if you want to be cynical housing workers right and making sure they had clean homes was good for business. An open society it most definitely was not though.

Edited July 16, 2006 by fyds

[Archangel]

I didn't say that at all.

 

Britain hasn't been able to fulfill its true potential because of the preposterous class system which is still in effect (though thankfully being broken down gradually). The honours system is a symptom of it. The ruling class throwing trinkets at the rabble to keep them happy.

 

F*ck that.

 

Wrong the class system has been in decay since the end of the First World War, its not yet completely dead lurking in the Lords but became practically irrelevant when Thatcher and Tebbit took over its last great bastion of real power almost three decades ago

 

To say that the honours system has held Britain back is facile, back from fulfilling what potential exactly?.

 

The class system has been replaced by something much more odious, corporate capitalism. Its the likes of Rupert Murdoch that wield the real power and influence in this society not the Royal family, or the old school.

 

Anyway, I'm sure Steven couldnt give a bugger