DJS

Reckon we need to beat both Spurs & Southampton to retain any realistic chance of top 4.

Maybe van Gaal needs to bring on a few more attacking players...

Yes I appreciate that & wasn't meaning flat out, just more urgency and intent near the last 5-10 mins. It's just frustrating, not really a criticism.

I'm with you on that, we won't win them all of course. But we should be winning the ones against teams that we're better than, especially when they're in rubbish form. I'm more disappointed that we didn't really go for it & do everything we could to try & win. I accept that it's sometimes not going to be our day. That's football. Just felt that we didn't give it everything we could've done yesterday, which is frustrating.

A point on Arsenal, lost 2 on Spurs & Saints. It's not a banker but the position we put ourselves in leaves little margin for error. That was 2 points dropped at a time we can't really afford it. We can't be dropping points against inferior opposition, the games will run out.

funny cos it's true

Don't really know what happened today, especially second half. Can only assume tiredness got the better of us because there was no tempo, no clear desire & no urgency. In a game we needed to win, we somehow were in several situations near the end where we looked like we wanted to slow everything down, kill the tempo & were happier with a point. Last few mins, they played with urgency & were hurrying up while we seemed to prefer to eat up the little remaining time. Bizarre. Unless Sterling & Coutinho were enforced subs, they were totally the wrong men to come off. Our creativity died once Coutinho went & bringing on Lambert seemed to miss the point that we weren't actually creating any chances that needed a finisher to convert. Markovic would've been a better choice for me. Thought we were too cautious from the get-go, with a starting lineup that didn't have much in the way of goal threat & playing in a way that looked as though we were respecting them way too much, with no proper pressing & far too much sitting back when they had the ball. Think that Spurs & Southampton are now both must-win games otherwise our chances of top four look remote at best.

It offers no guarantees of course. I like our odds better with than without though As for the last point about qualifying once against consistently so, I agree partially (though even qualifying once, if used in a certain way, can help future prospects) but in any case, obviously qualifying consistently has to start with the once.

Agenda? Really? Maybe don't take yourself quite so seriously mate

The Dortmund situation is close to critical. Honigstien reckons a Freiburg win tomorrow could see the end of Klopp.

I was simply stating why consistent CL football is so valuable compared to the odd cup win. I agree that it's indisputable & its therefore reassuring to see that you're no longer disputing it & are now agreeing with me.

I understand all that and I completely accept that some would prefer to win the FA Cup rather than finish 4th. That's not a problem & I'm not trying to change their minds, each to their own. I'm not saying I value 4th place finishes over trophy wins. I'm saying top 4 finishes simply equip us far better in the quest to win things. Finishing 4th is a means to an end, it's not the end. If you do what Arsenal do & consider 4th place as a trophy in itself, then it's worthless. But most normal clubs would use CL qualification as something which aids their chances of success, and that's the point of it. Taking that revenue year in, year out massively increases our chances of being consistently competitive for top honours. That's why its critical. That's all I'm saying & without wanting to sound big headed, I can't see how that is anything other than indisputable fact.

I'm not going to get into your childish game, where you pretend you can't recognise a figure of speech. You're also resorting to a convenient straw man argument, but unfortunately, I didn't actually say that 'mere qualification' can compete with lifting a trophy. No matter how often you imply that I did. The destination (to use your terminology) is far more likely to be one of winning regular honours for a team that has more money & is a more attractive prospect to top quality players, than a team with considerably less cash & that isn't such an attractive prospect to top players. Being consistently in the CL equates to having more cash & being more likely to attract top class players - two massively significant factors when it comes to consistently contesting/winning honours, or at least, being in a better position to do so. This is as obvious a fact as there is & if you dispute that, then I've nothing more to discuss with you on it, as you may as well also be suggesting that we play in blue.

Might sound silly but his English is now up to scratch & I think this makes a difference. Always rated him highly but now he seems settled & far more comfortable generally, which is coming out in his game.

No, it doesn't - but you're ending the story at just 'qualifying' and if things are done right, it doesn't end there. Aside from all other points, you simply cannot argue that a side that doesn't often play in the CL is better equipped to win things than one which does. Clearly a side which is consistently in the CL, consistently gets the revenues from it & carries the kudos of being in it, is generally more likely to win things & be successful than one which isn't in the CL much, or at all. That, I'm afraid, is unquestionable.

I knew somebody would bring up the ONE main anomaly. I was going to say in my previous post, "Unless you're Arsenal and can't/won't utilise the benefits of consistently being in the CL..." but I didn't think I'd need to make the obvious point. But yeah, it's the most obvious formula that being in the CL consistently brings more money & generally makes you more attractive to top players. Being able to buy top players equates to a far better chance of consistently challenging for & winning honours. I didn't think I'd actually need to spell that out, but in any case, whilst it's not 100% black & white, it's a very obvious & straightforward conclusion to reach.

Yes and consistently being in the CL is a significant stepping stone to consistently contesting & winning honours.

Twice out of two possible seasons so far, so 100% of the available time under Rodgers to measure against. You don't have to call it a trend if you don't want to. I didn't either. Remains to be seen if it happens again. I was only pointing out the potential caveat as something to consider, I wasn't suggesting that it is nailed on as a reason as to why we had great second halves of seasons before. It may or may not have had a significant impact, it's impossible to say definitively either way. It's just something to bear in mind.

Watching Danny Ward during pre game warm ups gives the impression that he barely has arms & hands.

Yeah but I'm kinda talking about the fact that we tend to have great second halves of a season.

Honestly think Jose Enrique is a better keeper than Danny Ward.

He's stood outside the away end waiting for the turnstiles to open,

Articles suggesting this new deal doubles his wages. So he was on a measly £35k p/w. Bargain for a player like him.

Chelsea at it again, making a profit of £7m whilst strengthening their squad. Dodgy as f**k the fees they get for their unwanted squad fillers. She's rather delightful.

The one caveat is that we didn't have much European football during the second half of the last two seasons.