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Hope we go neck and neck with them all the way, absolutely sick of having to root for Chelsea or Arsenal during the final games of the league. And then see them fail anyway... *feels sick in the stomach remembering that feeling*

I think most times it's very poor, or just a lack of movement off the ball which makes him decide to hold onto the ball until a better play becomes available. Which is usually never, hence the overplaying. In my opinion of course.

Put intelligent players that make good runs off the ball around him and he will look a proper player. Always been a fan, but he's not great out wide. Needs to be in the thick of play, around the box for us to get the most out of him I reckon.

He is the perfect man to take over in my opinion. Have thought that for a while, well since Rafa had a bust up with the owners last year. But let's leave that for another thread.

Exactly a point I was about to make. As Carra and Gerrard mentioned earlier in the season (and I'm sure before that too), we need to be thereabouts in April. That constitutes as a title challenge. I guess it shows how poor we have been for the longest time, to be considering being top in December a title challenge.

Rafa was asking Kuyt to come up to the left wing on Sunday before Pienaar took their corner. He came ran upfield, Neville had to readjust his positioning. There were voices of approval around me. And then they scored...

We generally show very poor movement off the ball, and don't commit enough men forward. This group of players are able to play a fluid attacking style of football, but for whatever reason they don't. And I can't think of any other probable reason than tactical restrictions. Hence, I can only conclude that the manager is not willing to let them go out there and attack with freedom. And if he's not restricting them, then why is he not getting the players to be more fluid and dynamic in our attacking play, encouraging more players to get ahead of play? Rafa tries to get the best out of each player within the confines of how he sees they fit into his team and tactics. I shouldn't have said what you highlighted the way I did, but my general feeling is that we are good enough to attack teams the way Man Utd do. And unfortunately they are the benchmark in my eyes in terms of balance between attacking and defending ability. Hence the remark about letting them play to the best they can. Because in my eyes this team is capable of consistently taking teams apart with good passing and movement like we saw against Bolton and in spells against Spurs away.

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Our main problem is that there is an alarming lack of movement off the ball. I say alarming but it really isn't - this has been a problem for the longest time. Skrtel was having issues passing the ball last night partially because of the lack of movement ahead of him. This is and has always been a problem that only the manager can fix. If he's not instilling it into the players' games due to an inflexibility of tactics (focusing on keeping shape etc) then we will continue to come unstuck. I watched Man Utd against Bolton on Saturday and with 15 minutes to go they were already committing players in the opposition box, at one point 4 were in the box ahead of play. There was movement off the ball all over the pitch. We have a very strong group of players. The manager unfortunately is not willing to let them play to the best that they can.

To me, the problems are: - Lack of movement off the ball. - Players spread across the pitch too far from each other. - Lack of midfield runners ahead of the ball. - Carragher at right back absolutely blunts our attacks down that wing. - Kuyt is not a lone striker. Spearhead of a two-man strike force maybe, but not with Gerrard right behind him. - Playing the ball into good wide crossing positions but having two men in the box most times. Same old sh*t really. With or without Alonso, the same issues are still there. Xabi's ability to pick out an incisive pass quickly and accurately compensates for that. And on some days, the movement is slightly better, players seem to be more confident with making more attacking runs. Stoke saw how Newcastle got ripped to shreds, and were hardly going to allow Gerrard the kind of time and space he got. Spreading the field of play is an excellent idea when playing against teams who defend well if: - Wide man has pace and/or good skill on the ball to beat their man - Wide man can deliver an excellent cross, but this is dependent on a crucial element; - Enough players (usually at least 3) actually make runs into the box Yesterday in the first half, Riera was able to put in good crosses (I remember him beating his man once at least). When he did put a good ball in, how many players did we have in the box for him to aim at? The two I can remember are the Kuyt header and Benayoun trying to get to an excellent low cross. Both times I think they were the only players in the box. With regards the Barry saga, I'd love to see Xabi and Barry in a midfield two, with Gerrard ahead of them. Both are excellent passers of the ball, with Barry adept at getting into the box to support the strikers. They can both defend well and put in a tackle where need be. Both can interchange their roles and pick their moments to get forward. That would make us a much better team on the ball, although for me Mascherano is still a should-have (as opposed to must-have) for away games.

Except that he did. For the 16/17 games in which he was injury free at the start of his LFC career.

I think Gerrard's deliveries have been superb recently, and have gradually improved since slightly before this time last year. And having Sami back in the team makes a big difference. Agger is a threat too. Hope i'm not wrecking your thread dave, but digressing very slightly, the more corners I see being conceded due to poor man marking (Stoke goal against West Ham), the more I cannot understand why everyone does not mark zones on corners. And then they have the cheek to criticise us for doing that. Also, do we also now consistently adopt a hybrid marking system where the line of 4/5 in front of the keeper is zonal, and then afterwards players pick their man and mark them?

Better coaching and use of players can get more out of this current crop. Alonso hardly ever gets ahead of play, even when Gerrard is sitting deep getting the ball off the centerbacks. Last night's match was screaming out for Benayoun to play infield, yet he was left wide right. Huge surprise he wasn't taken off though. The shape of the team is not always right, we don't move off the ball and the central midfielders hardly ever get ahead of the forwards. We play too far apart from each other too often. Last night as an example again - yes, Rafa wanted to spread play across the pitch to create more space. And made a lot of crossing opportunities. But when we don't have enough men in the box to capitalise, it's more often than not going to be fruitless. We need to be more dynamic in our play, simple as that. More players committing forward, more interchanging of positions. Compress the spaces between teammates thus making the short ball an easier option. Learn how Arsenal play, basically. But have that as one of the attacking styles, not the only one. We have the players to make it work.

I watched Villa's games against Arsenal and Man Utd (and some of Fulham), and noticed that Barry gets ahead of his strikers and into the box very well, and quite often too. Could that be why Rafa wanted him in the team? He might not have Xabi's passing ability, but he is very good on the ball and seems to move about the pitch more than Alonso but that could well be due to tactical restrictions / freedom. I think also the fact that Barry is more comfortable going out wide during different phases of play (interchanging and overlapping) than Xabi was what really appealed to Rafa.

I believe that's down to Rafa and his coaching staff. If he put as much emphasis on this as he does with positioning and pressing when without the ball, we'd be a much better footballing side. I'm pretty sure the Arsenal team are coached to make a lot of movement off the ball when in possession. If we showed half the initiative that they have to take up good positions ahead of the ball carrier, I'm pretty sure we'd be taking apart teams with more regularity.

Denilson is the slightly better player, more solid overall. From what I've seen anyway. Lucas doesn't look to have the same kind of composure, pace or physical strength. Maybe it's the girly hair... Anderson is on a different level. Can you imagine Lucas out-playing Gerrard in midfield (at Anfield in Dec 07), even once in his career? Having said all that, he's not as bad as some make him out to be, but definitely has a lot of improving to do in all aspects of his game.

I thought (then, and now) we had to play Crouch ahead of Kuyt if we were going one up top. That's the one mistake Rafa made in his preparations. Kuyt for all his industry just wasn't getting in the right positions (i.e. in the box)if I recall correctly, and Crouchy was always going to cause their defence problems. I think if Rafa had the benefit of hindsight, he'd have played Kuyt on the right and Crouchy up front. And I think we would have done better, at least from an attacking perspective in the first half anyway.

Still remember that season so clearly. We played some superb stuff, got a few bad results (2-2 draws), Houllier put the shackles back on, won 3-0 at Man City playing some awful stuff. Won a few more games, people went on about how good we'll be when we start playing well. I actually sat there thinking...hold on, we were playing very well earlier in the season, we've gone backwards with the negative tactics but somehow started winning matches again (somehow = Michael Owen). I think we've been slowly (but surely) playing ourselves into form, the passing, movement and general interplay has been improving. Against Spurs I thought we displayed our best attacking and possession performance of the season by a fair bit. In '02 Houllier took us to Boro and played for the 0-0, and got a 1-0 loss. On Saturday we went at Spurs, pressed and passed the ball around them, going for the killer goal and dominated for most of the game. Huge difference. We are too good this time round to go on a similar 11-match run whilst not being able to string mroe than 3 passes together. Granted it is possible to have 11 matches of pure bad luck, but we won't collapse the way we did 6 years ago.

1. Alonso 2. Arbeloa & Kuyt

Name me two matches which we have played better in terms of the passing, movement, possession and attacking threat.

Alonso plays with heart, and a passion for the club. Granted Lucas is still young, but he doesn't seem to have the same intensity that Xabi applies.

Downside: the slide which happened to Arsenal last season? I think personally we should rotate in the CL. Keep the team as it is for the league (at least the core of 8/9 players), but chop and change for the CL.

When he holds on to the ball and takes a few touches, I always worry. Then he makes a quick turn, and plays suddenly open up for him, and I am in awe. Oh me of little faith...

Winning me over, slowly but surely... His overall play and significantly improved ball control is contributing to the team's improved play and excellent form. Well worth his position in the team now IMO.

Agreed totally. Him and Stevie have struck up a good understanding, and Xabi has even been seen making forward runs close to the box recently! I suspect Barry will still in Rafa's ideas, but only because he's English and can fill in on the left...