Skrtel & Agger Partnership

[doug_mac]

personally i think the defense needs a rebuild similar to when houllier came in and recruited hyypia,henchoz,westerveld and hamann

 

these players, especially hyypia,henchoz and hamann gave us a rock solid foundation to build on and were an integral part of us winning trophies under houllier

 

and even after he left hyypia and hamann were important players under benitez in trophy winning teams.

 

i think skrtel/agger as a pair with lucas or allen or both in front of them is not strong enough to get us up near the top of the league

 

it seems anytime skrtel and agger come up against a big strong centre forward they get destroyed. jones and walters ran them ragged last night, 2 weeks ago it was benteke, drogba regularly terrorised us no mattter

 

who played centre half, even andy carrol gave us a going over when he played for newcastle. i reckon we need at least one big strong streetwise centre half to marshall the defense because our two arent up to the job

 

also the midfielders in front of them dont protect them as much as they should. we also need a tough tackling streetwise defensive midfielder in front of them doing the job hamann did under houllier and mascherano

 

did under benitez. shawcross is exactly the kind of no frills defender we need to bring some steel to the backline and somebody else even coates should be given a try. pepe is still a fine keeper but i cant see him

 

hanging around forever if we cant start challenging for the champions league. for the centre of midfield we have lucas and allen to play as defensive midfielders, both are good on the ball but are lightweight and can be

 

bossed around and i think we should be looking at a different type of player in there - mascherano would be ideal but he wont be leaving barca for us. wanyama at celtic could do this job, hes young , big strong and

 

athletic and will be at a top club in the next 12 months. our scouts need to be on the ball and find some players who are available at the right money. argentina produces great defenders and defensive midfielders

 

and wouldnt be a bad place to start looking

[Cam]

Give 'em a decent defensive coach and they'll be fine again.

[goodrobotusses]

Nah, we just don't give them enough protection.

[épieur]

They looked strong enough together when Clarke was coaching them to hold a high line, with and without Lucas.

 

Whatever Rodgers is telling them is something different and not nearly as effective.

[Cam]

I understand the question mark against them - after all Skrtel has only had the good 1.5 seasons during his time with us and Agger always looks better with a true 'stopper' alongside him (Skrtel isn't a Hyypia or Carragher) - they are the least of our worries at the moment. As CJMc says, we need to give them better protection to start with; a rusty Lucas, Gerrard, an underwhelming Allen and bloody Shelvey aren't the right people. Especially in a three that gets spread too thinly.

 

Also, just restricting Johnson's forward commitments a little bit would be helpful. As would a proper leftback. And then if Reina does his job properly....

[Ombudsam]

personally i think the defense needs a rebuild similar to when houllier came in and recruited hyypia,henchoz,westerveld and hamann

 

these players, especially hyypia,henchoz and hamann gave us a rock solid foundation to build on and were an integral part of us winning trophies under houllier

 

and even after he left hyypia and hamann were important players under benitez in trophy winning teams.

 

i think skrtel/agger as a pair with lucas or allen or both in front of them is not strong enough to get us up near the top of the league

 

it seems anytime skrtel and agger come up against a big strong centre forward they get destroyed. jones and walters ran them ragged last night, 2 weeks ago it was benteke, drogba regularly terrorised us no mattter

 

who played centre half, even andy carrol gave us a going over when he played for newcastle. i reckon we need at least one big strong streetwise centre half to marshall the defense because our two arent up to the job

 

also the midfielders in front of them dont protect them as much as they should. we also need a tough tackling streetwise defensive midfielder in front of them doing the job hamann did under houllier and mascherano

 

did under benitez. shawcross is exactly the kind of no frills defender we need to bring some steel to the backline and somebody else even coates should be given a try. pepe is still a fine keeper but i cant see him

 

hanging around forever if we cant start challenging for the champions league. for the centre of midfield we have lucas and allen to play as defensive midfielders, both are good on the ball but are lightweight and can be

 

bossed around and i think we should be looking at a different type of player in there - mascherano would be ideal but he wont be leaving barca for us. wanyama at celtic could do this job, hes young , big strong and

 

athletic and will be at a top club in the next 12 months. our scouts need to be on the ball and find some players who are available at the right money. argentina produces great defenders and defensive midfielders

 

and wouldnt be a bad place to start looking

 

 

Dude, are you trying to write a poem?

[Knoxy]

I'd leave Agger out vs QPR and give Coates a go.

[schmuckdonald]

Yeah, we should alienate the good, experienced, players we have left. Good idea.

[Metro]

I understand the question mark against them - after all Skrtel has only had the good 1.5 seasons during his time with us and Agger always looks better with a true 'stopper' alongside him (Skrtel isn't a Hyypia or Carragher) - they are the least of our worries at the moment. As CJMc says, we need to give them better protection to start with; a rusty Lucas, Gerrard, an underwhelming Allen and bloody Shelvey aren't the right people. Especially in a three that gets spread too thinly.

 

Also, just restricting Johnson's forward commitments a little bit would be helpful. As would a proper leftback. And then if Reina does his job properly....

 

 

They'd be okay if we strengthened the midfield and attack and took the pressure off them!

[Tones]

Agger, Skrtel and Reina is an outstanding 3 to have at the heart of the defence. They should be up there with the best in europe as they were not long ago. Something else is wrong, it cant all be down to 3 top class players turning to crap in a short period of time.

[Knoxy]

Yeah, we should alienate the good, experienced, players we have left. Good idea.

 

Players should expect to be dropped when they're playing poorly, Agger is.

 

So yes, it is a good idea

[schmuckdonald]

Players should expect to be dropped when they're playing poorly, Agger is.

 

So yes, it is a good idea

 

He isn't, though. If we had Nesta and Cannavaro to come in they'd still struggle while our midfield is s***ting itself so consistently.

[Tones]

Players should expect to be dropped when they're playing poorly, Agger is.

 

So yes, it is a good idea

 

I think it would be better to look at why so many of our better players and playing so bad. Dropping them will just put the replacements under the same pressure.

[marty]

pair of fannies the other night

[yellow jumper]

thought skrtel did alright apart from the slightly unfortunate slip. agger was badly off colour though.

[Knoxy]

He isn't, though. If we had Nesta and Cannavaro to come in they'd still struggle while our midfield is s***ting itself so consistently.

 

Weak vs Stoke and poor vs Villa

 

I'm not one for messing with CB pairings usually, but if Coates isn't getting a run now then when will he? I want us to have an option to contend with physical strikers, Agger and Skrtel aren't doing so

[Earl Hafler]

Agger, Skrtel and Reina is an outstanding 3 to have at the heart of the defence. They should be up there with the best in europe as they were not long ago. Something else is wrong, it cant all be down to 3 top class players turning to crap in a short period of time.

 

Think there's a problem with two attacking fullbacks and our current midfield. We love to see either Johnson or Enrique getting forward and both have been praised for their attacking contributions. However, we can't cope with that and having Lucas and Gerrard as the only players being prepared for the counter.

 

It's a more defensive back four or change the front six. I'd have the same back four but strengthen the midfield - Lucas plus two from Allen, Henderson and Sahin - and have Gerrard behind Suarez and Sterling / Sturridge.

 

Lucas holds and orchestrates the midfield, plays as he did against Southampton where when he stepped up, the whole defence stepped up and the team pressed up the pitch. Then have two players who can harry and cover the flanks. If one of them makes a forward run then there's still two covering.

 

 

 

Nice to see Gerrard rake a 60 yard pass from our own half but the forward or Enrique receives it and has to wait as there's only one player in the area, with Shelvey outside the area unsure as to hold his position or commit and make a run. Rather have Gerrard making that run and goal as he did against West Ham.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Earl Hafler

[Flight]

Players should expect to be dropped when they're playing poorly, Agger is.

 

So yes, it is a good idea

 

 

How many players would that leave on the pitch atm ?

[Leo No.8]

I think Agger and Skrtel are both very easy on the eye as defenders - great footballers, very talented. But in this league as a duo, they are often undersized. Both are very slim which makes them quick but against a 15 stone centre forward like Jones (to whom each gives away about 3 stone in weight and bulk) they are outmuscled easily. I think we need a big clogger to play alongside one or the other relatively often - I thought Coates was that man, so we need to either employ him as such or replace him.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Leo No.8

[CaptainXabi]

I think Agger and Skrtel are both very easy on the eye as defenders - great footballers, very talented. But in this league as a duo, they are often undersized. Both are very slim which makes them quick but against a 15 stone centre forward like Jones (to whom each gives away about 3 stone in weight and bulk) they are outmuscled easily. I think we need a big clogger to play alongside one or the other relatively often - I thought Coates was that man, so we need to either employ him as such or replace him.

I have no idea what we're doing with Coates. We need to play him or move him on (I would prefer the former).

Edited December 28, 2012 by CaptainXabi

[Ombudsam]

Really struggled against big strikers recently

[Rimbeux]

Think there's a problem with two attacking fullbacks and our current midfield. We love to see either Johnson or Enrique getting forward and both have been praised for their attacking contributions. However, we can't cope with that and having Lucas and Gerrard as the only players being prepared for the counter.

 

It's a more defensive back four or change the front six. I'd have the same back four but strengthen the midfield - Lucas plus two from Allen, Henderson and Sahin - and have Gerrard behind Suarez and Sterling / Sturridge.

 

Lucas holds and orchestrates the midfield, plays as he did against Southampton where when he stepped up, the whole defence stepped up and the team pressed up the pitch. Then have two players who can harry and cover the flanks. If one of them makes a forward run then there's still two covering.

 

 

 

Nice to see Gerrard rake a 60 yard pass from our own half but the forward or Enrique receives it and has to wait as there's only one player in the area, with Shelvey outside the area unsure as to hold his position or commit and make a run. Rather have Gerrard making that run and goal as he did against West Ham.

 

This is all very true. There is going to be risk when you push both full backs on, double so when you don't really have two sitting midfielders who can cover the space in behind, either physically or tactically in terms of what they are asked to do. I think it's a new experience for the centre halves, with a lot more pitch to cover either side of them and in front. That said the bullying they, Agger especially are getting is a concern, I remember it being a one off before that he would come back from with a bang. It's that and a real lack of snappiness or awareness on the second ball and midfield runners that shouldn't be repeating and are a lethal combination. In general off the ball, we lack intensity also and it's all adding up to the crucial two and three yards of space that we are giving up, giving goals

[john_lfc]

Ridiculous thread, they had one really poor game.

They have been excellent this season, considering the s**** they have playing infront of them (Allen, Shelvey)

 

Would you rather see Coates there?

[Knoxy]

I think Agger and Skrtel are both very easy on the eye as defenders - great footballers, very talented. But in this league as a duo, they are often undersized. Both are very slim which makes them quick but against a 15 stone centre forward like Jones (to whom each gives away about 3 stone in weight and bulk) they are outmuscled easily. I think we need a big clogger to play alongside one or the other relatively often - I thought Coates was that man, so we need to either employ him as such or replace him.

 

Agree, they're both good players - particularly a fully fit Agger, but not a great partnership for this league.

 

It's not our biggest problem by any means, but is a problem none the less. And agree we need to make a call re Coates as would expect this to be Carra's last season

[Rory Fitzgerald]

The back line is full of fine individuals that have proved their ability with Reina, Skrtel, Agger, Johnson and Lucas just ahead. However, the defensive is not as cohesive as it should be and I think thats down to the managers approach and the lack of legs/desire in midfield to work hard off the ball. I dont think personnel will change that.

 

A Houllier/Benitez type manager would focus on those 2 aspects first when arriving at a new team. Rodgers has (admirably) come in with a different set of values and tried to implement them from Day 1 with no compromise.

 

However, he may have to in the short term in order to grind out dirty results rather than persist and loose to teams when we should be at least taking a point.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Rory Fitzgerald