Buy Cheap, Buy Twice

[Cooger]

I thought we played quite well yesterday. Stoke did what we expected and we couldn’t break them down enough, despite missing some chances. If you look at the spine of the team, they generally did their job:

 

Reina, Skrtel and Carragher – All solid defensively.

 

Alonso and Gerrard – Bossed centre of the field and gave plently of possession to our wide players.

 

Torres and Keane – Finishing not good. But given the lack of space the opposition were giving them and the fact they were being supplied with average quality, they were not the problem.

 

For me it goes back to the same debate we’ve had for a long time, are our wide players offering enough?

 

Since Benitez has arrived, he’s spent the larger parts of his budget down the spine – Torres, Keane, Kuyt (meant to be a striker), Mascherano and Alonso. But in the wide positions certainly attacking-wise I think he’s sacrificed some quality at times by not willing to pay over the odds for players, which is fair enough. Pennant, Benayoun, Gonzalez, Leto, Nunez, Zenden is not great pedigree when judging his wide signings. Converting strikers to play these roles has not had great success either with Kuyt and Babel. Compare it to what United or Chelsea have had out wide under Benitez’s time in Cole, Robben, Duff, Malouda, SWP, Park, Nani, Giggs, Ronaldo and the difference in quality is massive really. Sure those players cost more than ours, however we can’t say Benitez has not had funds to improve this area when he spends 20 million on Keane, plus what Riera cost.

 

It’s hard to criticise Benitez because he has missed out on targets with Simao, Alves and Malouda being the obvious three, maybe even more in Walcott and some others. But then again all teams miss out on players and then we could even argue is this Benitez’s team when he misses out on some many targets?! Of course it’s his team give the time and money he’s had in the job, but it’s hard to access his quality in buying wide players when he misses out on so many targets.

 

For me for years we have lacked a wide player who can create constantly. Look at United since they have lost Ronaldo due to injury, they do not look half as threatening. Same for Chelsea with Joe Cole or Arsenal with Walcott. For me our wide players don’t offer anything near what these players do, with their pace, creativity, goals etc.

 

Yesterday highlighted this fact as Riera (who has looked fairly decent to be fair), Kuyt, Babel and Benayoun between them (and our full backs) had loads of opportunities to produce some guile, a final ball or the audacity to try something different in order to win the game.

 

Benitez has had to spread his budget under his time at Anfield, we can all accept that and he’s done remarkably well, despite missing out on targets. However given Gerrard just behind and Torres looked so good the second half of last season and our wide players crying out for a match winner ala Cole or Ronaldo… it does make you wonder whether he got his priorities right this summer with the 20 million purchase of Keane. Nothing against Keane, I like him and think he’ll prove some doubters wrong sooner rather than later. But personally I think the money could have been used more towards buying the ‘real deal’ wide player.

 

So far we’ve bought relatively cheap wide players and the quality has been lacking. You buy cheap, buy twice or three, four, five, six times in Benitez’s case with Pennant, Benayoun, Gonzalez, Leto, Nunez, Zenden etc.

 

Until we find ourselves our Ronaldo, Joe Cole, Robben, Giggs etc type player I fear we’ll struggle against the weaker teams who are happy for a draw at Anfield.

[D.Boon]

Compare it to what United or Chelsea have had out wide under Benitez’s time in Duff, Malouda, SWP, Park, and the difference in quality is massive really.

 

Are you sure?

[surf]

i do agree with the argument, but we did buy keane for 20m to help break down teams like stoke that just defend and it didn't come off.

 

torres and gerrard looked a little less sharp than usual, think that was a big factor

[Cooger]

Are you sure?

 

You have editing my sentence and missed out some key players.

 

I would safely say Cole, Robben, Duff, Malouda, SWP, Park, Nani, Giggs, Ronaldo are in a different league to win games than Pennant, Benayoun, Gonzalez, Leto, Nunez, Zenden.

[D.Boon]

You have editing my sentence and missed out some key players.

 

I would safely say Cole, Robben, Duff, Malouda, SWP, Park, Nani, Giggs, Ronaldo are in a different league to win games than Pennant, Benayoun, Gonzalez, Leto, Nunez, Zenden.

 

I would argue Duff, Malouda, Park and SWP are no better than what we have.

[Cooger]

but we did buy keane for 20m to help break down teams like stoke that just defend and it didn't come off.

 

I think Benitez did.

 

However that doesn't mean I think it was right.

 

For me last season the threat was central through Gerrard and Torres.

 

Adding Keane to play centrally has not helped the threat outwide, in my opinion.

[Cooger]

I would argue Duff, Malouda, Park and SWP are no better than what we have.

 

Duff when he was at Chelsea, was far better.

 

I think SWP is also better than what we have.

 

But I can see your point.

[meepins]

i do agree with the argument, but we did buy keane for 20m to help break down teams like stoke that just defend and it didn't come off.

 

torres and gerrard looked a little less sharp than usual, think that was a big factor

It's a bit difficult to influence the game when the ball isn't coming in any useful way. The guy had to drop way back into midfield just to get a touch because it was either getting walloped over and wide via long range shots or useless crosses were going in that never looked like threatening.

There was plenty of time and space everywhere except in their box and the use of the possession was severely lacking.

[Romario]

I'm actually more annoyed today about yesterdays result. Why the hell did we play a flat 4-4-2 with Kuyt on the right when we have an on fire Babel sitting on the bench itching to attack players.

 

Yesterday was exactly the kind of game where Kuyt's defensive game wasn't needed at all. As for Pennant, well he could walk on a bosman and that would be the biggest waste of 7.5 million in the history of Liverpool as far as I can remember. Good job we don't have money problems.

 

Oh and as for Benayoun!! "Go on Benni take that extra touch that's not needed when you have a clear pass on... go on ...well done you've lost it again. Now repeat again and again all game every game"

 

Regarding breaking up Torres and Gerrard which was probably our best partnership (or looking like) since I'm guessing of the top of my head here, Collymore and Fowler for a season, well only Rafa can answer that one. It's soul destroying at times.

[Cooger]

I'm actually more annoyed today about yesterdays result. Why the hell did we play a flat 4-4-2 with Kuyt on the right when we have an on fire Babel sitting on the bench itching to attack players.

 

Yesterday was exactly the kind of game where Kuyt's defensive game wasn't needed at all. As for Pennant, well he could walk on a bosman and that would be the biggest waste of 7.5 million in the history of Liverpool as far as I can remember. Good job we don't have money problems.

 

Oh and as for Benayoun!! "Go on Benni take that extra touch that's not needed when you have a clear pass on... go on ...well done you've lost it again. Now repeat again and again all game every game"

 

Regarding breaking up Torres and Gerrard which was probably our best partnership (or looking like) since I'm guessing of the top of my head here, Collymore and Fowler for a season, well only Rafa can answer that one. It's soul destroying at times.

 

I don't disagree with any of that.

 

I actually think we have the answer to our 'wide' position and his name is Steven Gerrard.

 

Sure sky and match of the day highlights fans might have a hissy fit if he was seen in that position and OK Gerrard wants to play central. But I personally think he would give us the threat outwide required. He can beat a player, has a good cross, can score from that position and we won't lose too much threat centrally as we still have Keane and Torres. Let Alonso and Mascherano break up play and bossing the midfield, passing the ball simply, allowing Gerrard to play higher up the field, giving the team more threat outwide and improving our balance.

 

Any coincidence our best season under Benitez, Gerrard winning PFA player of the season, scoring 23 goals occurred when he was used on the right?

 

Gerrard wants to win the league, personally I think his best chance for that occurring is if he plays on the right. He might not like it, sky and the media might not like it... but I tell you what they will be more upset when we don't challenge for the league.

[Romario]

I don't disagree with any of that.

 

I actually think we have the answer to our 'wide' position and his name is Steven Gerrard.

 

Sure sky and match of the day highlights fans might have a hissy fit if he was seen in that position and OK Gerrard wants to play central. But I personally think he would give us the threat outwide required. He can beat a player, has a good cross, can score from that position and we won't lose too much threat centrally as we still have Keane and Torres. Let Alonso and Mascherano break up play and bossing the midfield, passing the ball simply, allowing Gerrard to play higher up the field, giving the team more threat outwide and improving our balance.

 

Any coincidence our best season under Benitez, Gerrard winning PFA player of the season, scoring 23 goals occurred when he was used on the right?

 

Gerrard wants to win the league, personally I think his best chance for that occurring is if he plays on the right. He might not like it, sky and the media might not like it... but I tell you what they will be more upset when we don't challenge for the league.

 

Completly agree. I've always liked Gerrard on the right. It's his best position for us as it's where he's most needed and most effective if we stick with a 4-4-2

 

If like most managers in the world Rafa stuck with the working 4-2-3-1 then Gerrard should go back to playing behind Torres in the center of that 3 or if we must have Keane in the team then wide right with Keane in the center.

[Hassony]

I would argue Duff, Malouda, Park and SWP are no better than what we have.

 

Park

 

even Penannt is a better player than park and malouda

[Bigal]

You have editing my sentence and missed out some key players.

 

I would safely say Cole, Robben, Duff, Malouda, SWP, Park, Nani, Giggs, Ronaldo are in a different league to win games than Pennant, Benayoun, Gonzalez, Leto, Nunez, Zenden.

 

i understand what you trying to say but IIRC Duff, Robben, Cole, Ronaldo, Giggs havent been on the market when Rafa has been liverpool manager.

 

they had either just signed or have be in their clubs for years in giggs's case

[lfc4eva99]

We needed Keane as a back up for Torres imo, for a top 4 team, our budget including the new tv deal and Cl money wasn't too much was it?

[Cooger]

i understand what you trying to say but IIRC Duff, Robben, Cole, Ronaldo, Giggs havent been on the market when Rafa has been liverpool manager.

 

Sure but there are other wide players around.

[Siang]

Gerrard was disappointed at the final whistle...

 

TV showed him walking off with his head shaking left right as if saying "what the fug! we can't even score against these b******s!!"

[Bigal]

Sure but there are other wide players around.

 

yeah there is, But, they are of a certain quality, and they are of a rare breed and somewhat of a gamble.

 

Mark Kennedy or Ronaldo, both cost did or would have cost 2 million, maybe one made us over look the other.

[abc]

It's not just about the wide players. It's about the movement of the team as a whole. I was watching some of the Arsenal game, the movement was superb. Players making runs off the ball to support the ball carrier. It's that simple.

 

FWIW I thought we played pretty decently on Saturday. Even Lawrenson (not the best person to quote admittedly) thought we played some "very good" stuff.

 

** Kuyt at wide right was pointless. **

Edited September 22, 2008 by abc

[matty]

I agree there was no point playing Kuyt on Saturday. IMO Kuyt is there to provide solidity against teams with attacking potential. I don't know why he should play against the likes of Stoke at home. We ought to be putting flair players in there.

[Gravy]

I would argue Duff, and SWP are no better than what we have.

 

Are you fecking sure??????????

[Jarg Armani]

SWP is, at a conservative estimate, 10 times better than Pennant.

[AntM]

Torres and Keane – Finishing not good. But given the lack of space the opposition were giving them and the fact they were being supplied with average quality, they were not the problem.

Torres and Keane were the reasons we didn't grab all three points.

[sean]

I agree there was no point playing Kuyt on Saturday. IMO Kuyt is there to provide solidity against teams with attacking potential. I don't know why he should play against the likes of Stoke at home. We ought to be putting flair players in there.

 

 

Agree 10000%

 

No point whatsoever in a solid midfield, we needed players who could do something different. The only way to succeed against an organised outfit like Stoke is to go round them as opposed to through them. Shooting from 40 yards wasn't clever.

[Cooger]

But for me our spine is just as good, if not betetr than our rivals:

 

GK - Reina holds his own against VDS and Cech - Personally I think he's more consistant.

 

Centre backs - Skrtel, Carragher, Agger and Hyypia are just as strong as Man U and Chelsea's centre backs. Maybe we have even more depth. We've conceeded the least goals in the league at present.

 

Centre midfield - Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Lieva as good as the other teams, if not better.

 

Stirker - Torres, Keane, Babel, Ngog (or Kuyt) - Torres is the best striker in the league along with Drogba. Keane should deliver sooner rather than later.

 

As a result we control games as well as any team around - solid defensively and lots of possession.

 

But the wide positions we fall short because I think Man U and Chelsea have far better options than ours and have done throughout Benitez's reign. Until this improves, I can see us struggling against teams who defend deep. The wide players are the ones with time and space to win these games - through creation, guile, pace...or something special.

 

Ours are more solid than special.