Why is Rafa so negative with his tactics?

[Guest elneenyo]

I'm sat here after the Villa match and while it is a decent point away to them these days, I can't help but think that how we play just isn't enjoyable to watch anymore.

It's a bit like watching us under Houllier all over again with Rafa at times, there's no width, no options for players to pass to when we've got the ball and there's also players playing out of position and looking like square pegs in round holes. I also cant understand why Rafa persists with Kuyt on the right hand side of midfield, either play him up front or bench him, he'll graft all day for you and you can't fault his effort but he will not create the bullets for Keane/Torres to fire that a true winger would do.

Why is Babel out of favour?? Would El-Zhar have on what we have seen so far this season not provided a little more width and guile on the flanks than Lucas/Benayoun/Keane/Kuyt/Aurelio?? How come he didn't re-shuffle and move Kuyt and/or Keane forward when Nando got injured or Babel for that matter?? Aurelio coming on was another wholly uninspired substitution. The brand of football we now play may be difficult to break down and have its successes in thwarting teams but I dont take any enjoyment from that, I like to see fluid attacking football, at least once or twice in the match! I even saw West Brom putting a few nice passing moves together last night on MOTD and we dont seem able to manage it despite the money spent, we couldn't even manage a shot on target today and I find that particularly poor, what happened to trying to win matches?? Just feel all the team selections and systems are too restrictive and we need to let the players express themselves a little more, I do believe we have better players capable of far better performances if the tactics were a litle more positive. Anyway. That's my first post and I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree but I hope some of this strikes a chord with those who remember seeing those players who were lucky enough to pull on that famous red shirt, go out & play football & try to entertain and win in style...

Edited August 31, 2008 by elneenyo

[eskton]

Kuyt is not good enough (a few people around me on wednesday night finally realised that)

 

Benayoun is not good enough, get shut

 

Gerrard has to play centre midfield, Glen Hoddle made the point in order to move the club to the next level he has to play centre mid. Totally agree

 

Andy Gray said there's never a problem at the back its going forward that concerns me. Totally agree

 

sorry to keep going on about Chelski, but if they can keep the 4 attacking midfielders of Deco, Lampard, Joe Cole and Ballack on the field then for the good of the game they deserve to be ahead of a team that openly wants to play 4 defenders and 2 defensive midfielders just in front

 

Its a bad attitude to play 6 defenders and hold what we got n hope for a break away

 

Know i'll get slaughtered on here for saying this, but finally heard a lot of people who have sussed it out sat at the match

[uncle bob]

I'm sat here after the Villa match and while it is a decent point away to them these days, I can't help but think that how we play just isn't enjoyable to watch anymore.

It's a bit like watching us under Houllier all over again with Rafa at times, there's no width, no options for players to pass to when we've got the ball and there's also players playing out of position and looking like square pegs in round holes. I also cant understand why Rafa persists with Kuyt on the right hand side of midfield, either play him up front or bench him, he'll graft all day for you and you can't fault his effort but he will not create the bullets for Keane/Torres to fire that a true winger would do.

Why is Babel out of favour?? Would El-Zhar have on what we have seen so far this season not provided a little more width and guile on the flanks than Lucas/Benayoun/Keane/Kuyt/Aurelio?? How come he didn't re-shuffle and move Kuyt and/or Keane forward when Nando got injured or Babel for that matter?? Aurelio coming on was another wholly uninspired substitution. The brand of football we now play may be difficult to break down and have its successes in thwarting teams but I dont take any enjoyment from that, I like to see fluid attacking football, at least once or twice in the match! I even saw West Brom putting a few nice passing moves together last night on MOTD and we dont seem able to manage it despite the money spent, we couldn't even manage a shot on target today and I find that particularly poor, what happened to trying to win matches?? Just feel all the team selections and systems are too restrictive and we need to let the players express themselves a little more, I do believe we have better players capable of far better performances if the tactics were a litle more positive. Anyway. That's my first post and I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree but I hope some of this strikes a chord with those who remember seeing those players who were lucky enough to pull on that famous red shirt, go out & play football & try to entertain and win in style...

 

Not sure I agree with all your points, but I do regarding its general thrust

[Falconhoof]

The balance wasn't right but a point is decent.

Where was Babel though ? I'd have brought him on for Torres. Ngog, a reserve player, when you've got an £11m Dutch international forward on the bench is strange.

We had Kuyt and Keane already on the pitch so why bring on another striker ?

It wasn't a dreadful performance or anything to get angry about, just unimaginative.

[anfieldgaz]

The balance wasn't right but a point is decent.

Where was Babel though ? I'd have brought him on for Torres. Ngog, a reserve player, when you've got an £11m Dutch international forward on the bench is strange.

We had Kuyt and Keane already on the pitch so why bring on another striker ?

It wasn't a dreadful performance or anything to get angry about, just unimaginative.

 

Like most, if not all our games so far!

Edited August 31, 2008 by anfieldgaz

[Paddy 66]

I'm sat here after the Villa match and while it is a decent point away to them these days, I can't help but think that how we play just isn't enjoyable to watch anymore.

It's a bit like watching us under Houllier all over again with Rafa at times, there's no width, no options for players to pass to when we've got the ball and there's also players playing out of position and looking like square pegs in round holes. I also cant understand why Rafa persists with Kuyt on the right hand side of midfield, either play him up front or bench him, he'll graft all day for you and you can't fault his effort but he will not create the bullets for Keane/Torres to fire that a true winger would do.

Why is Babel out of favour?? Would El-Zhar have on what we have seen so far this season not provided a little more width and guile on the flanks than Lucas/Benayoun/Keane/Kuyt/Aurelio?? How come he didn't re-shuffle and move Kuyt and/or Keane forward when Nando got injured or Babel for that matter?? Aurelio coming on was another wholly uninspired substitution. The brand of football we now play may be difficult to break down and have its successes in thwarting teams but I dont take any enjoyment from that, I like to see fluid attacking football, at least once or twice in the match! I even saw West Brom putting a few nice passing moves together last night on MOTD and we dont seem able to manage it despite the money spent, we couldn't even manage a shot on target today and I find that particularly poor, what happened to trying to win matches?? Just feel all the team selections and systems are too restrictive and we need to let the players express themselves a little more, I do believe we have better players capable of far better performances if the tactics were a litle more positive. Anyway. That's my first post and I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree but I hope some of this strikes a chord with those who remember seeing those players who were lucky enough to pull on that famous red shirt, go out & play football & try to entertain and win in style...

It wasn't that bad , we passed iy better than we have yet this season and stop listening to sky pundits etc as they make it sound far worse, plus there are worse things that have happened than our performance today.

[usualsuspect]

It's certainly becoming clearer that Rafa for all the good work is not very offensive minded and relies on individual brilliance rather than team based thrust. Whether our form is early season jitters or our normal offering may still be with the jury but going by last couple of seasons we probably should not expect any earth shattering developments.

 

I think what frustrates some fans is the clarity of our shortcomings. For all our lack of width a few phases of pass and move with forward impetus would be welcome. We continue to prove how solid our defensive end of the game is but anything going forward is lethargic, too deliberate and comfortable for defences. Surely we can pose a bigger offensive threat even without 20m wingers?

Edited August 31, 2008 by usualsuspect

[Barnesy_10]

We are playing some terrible football at times, but the fact we are getting results is just papering over the cracks.

There just isn't the fluidity that we should have bearing in mind the players we have on the pitch, not sure what it is, but is it just a coincidence that so many players are playing so averagely at best?

I don't go into a game with the confidence that I used to have in the team, not just the team but the manaher and his decisions too.

Mancs up next which will be interesting..

[Spanish_fan]

Liverpool should get rid of Benitez and the dross he has brought with him. Appoint Sammy Lee. He will not win the league with this team but at least we will enjoy the games far more than with Benitez, and who knows with the right personnel he may win the League. Surely he won't keep robbing the Evertons and West Hams of their targets and will look for better players.

[Mike]

Liverpool should get rid of Benitez and the dross he has brought with him. Appoint Sammy Lee. He will not win the league with this team but at least we will enjoy the games far more than with Benitez, and who knows with the right personnel he may win the League. Surely he won't keep robbing the Evertons and West Hams of their targets and will look for better players.

 

oh f*** off.

[Paddy 66]

Liverpool should get rid of Benitez and the dross he has brought with him. Appoint Sammy Lee. He will not win the league with this team but at least we will enjoy the games far more than with Benitez, and who knows with the right personnel he may win the League. Surely he won't keep robbing the Evertons and West Hams of their targets and will look for better players.

You are the biggest c*** on here so just f*** off!!!!

[Rimbeux]

Personally I was happy with the point and happy with the way we set up. Tough away and we should have made good on a great chance to go with the proper defending.

[Falconhoof]

Liverpool should get rid of Benitez and the dross he has brought with him. Appoint Sammy Lee. He will not win the league with this team but at least we will enjoy the games far more than with Benitez, and who knows with the right personnel he may win the League. Surely he won't keep robbing the Evertons and West Hams of their targets and will look for better players.

 

who the f*** are you to be commenting anyway. t***.

[Spanish_fan]

8 transfer windows and some people are still deluding themselves. Have you ever thought why Liverpool are incapable of merely challenging for the title? Does the team play anywhere near the required level to win the Premiership?. I never see Chelsea or Man United defend for their lifes when playing against Aston Villa in the final minutes of the game and with the score tied. It is not only that Benitez doesn't buy enough good players, it is also his ultradefensive mentality that lets him down like the poster of this thread suggests. You are 0-0 in a league where the winner gets around 90 points and you bring in a left back to play as "winger". WTF?!!

[CarraLegend]

8 transfer windows and some people are still deluding themselves. Have you ever thought why Liverpool are incapable of merely challenging for the title? Does the team play anywhere near the required level to win the Premiership?. I never see Chelsea or Man United defend for their lifes when playing against Aston Villa in the final minutes of the game and with the score tied. It is not only that Benitez doesn't buy enough good players, it is also his ultradefensive mentality that lets him down like the poster of this thread suggests. You are 0-0 in a league where the winner gets around 90 points and you bring in a left back to play as "winger". WTF?!!

 

Shouldnt you be on a Barca forum debating why you got your a*** kicked by Numancia? I'm amazed your concern is Liverpool when your own team just lost to relegation fodder. But to be fair you did play some lovely 5 yard passes that got you nowhere.

[Guest elneenyo]

Look, already we've gone way off my point here, I just wanted to vent a bit of frustration at the containing tactics that we employ at times, I just want to see us attacking sides like Villa who were wholly beatable today and I view today as 2 points lost and another poor performance at the start of the season when I was hoping we may show a little more consistency than over the last few years....lets get back on that sort of theme please as thats what I posted the topic to discuss because I wanted to know how you all felt......

[Andy @ Allerton]

I'm sat here after the Villa match and while it is a decent point away to them these days, I can't help but think that how we play just isn't enjoyable to watch anymore.

It's a bit like watching us under Houllier all over again with Rafa at times, there's no width, no options for players to pass to when we've got the ball and there's also players playing out of position and looking like square pegs in round holes. I also cant understand why Rafa persists with Kuyt on the right hand side of midfield, either play him up front or bench him, he'll graft all day for you and you can't fault his effort but he will not create the bullets for Keane/Torres to fire that a true winger would do.

Why is Babel out of favour?? Would El-Zhar have on what we have seen so far this season not provided a little more width and guile on the flanks than Lucas/Benayoun/Keane/Kuyt/Aurelio?? How come he didn't re-shuffle and move Kuyt and/or Keane forward when Nando got injured or Babel for that matter?? Aurelio coming on was another wholly uninspired substitution. The brand of football we now play may be difficult to break down and have its successes in thwarting teams but I dont take any enjoyment from that, I like to see fluid attacking football, at least once or twice in the match! I even saw West Brom putting a few nice passing moves together last night on MOTD and we dont seem able to manage it despite the money spent, we couldn't even manage a shot on target today and I find that particularly poor, what happened to trying to win matches?? Just feel all the team selections and systems are too restrictive and we need to let the players express themselves a little more, I do believe we have better players capable of far better performances if the tactics were a litle more positive. Anyway. That's my first post and I'm sure there will be plenty who disagree but I hope some of this strikes a chord with those who remember seeing those players who were lucky enough to pull on that famous red shirt, go out & play football & try to entertain and win in style...

 

You're right with his negative tactics - being negative meant we ended up being the highest scorers in top flight football last season

 

We were also dead negative when we scored 126 goals.

 

We should play like Arsenal - the way that they easily walked the league for the last 3 years proves your argument

Edited August 31, 2008 by Andy @ Allerton

[Mike]

You're right with his negative tactics - being negative meant we ended up being the highest scorers in top flight football.

 

when was this?

[Andy @ Allerton]

when was this?

 

 

Last season

[eskton]

Shouldnt you be on a Barca forum debating why you got your a*** kicked by Numancia? I'm amazed your concern is Liverpool when your own team just lost to relegation fodder. But to be fair you did play some lovely 5 yard passes that got you nowhere.

 

 

he's entitled to a view

 

this is a democracy

[Murphman]

he's entitled to a view

 

this is a democracy

 

 

Correct. F*cking shame really?

[Mike]

Last season

 

we weren't. we were 4th highest. 13 behind manu (who also conceded 6 less than us btw)

[Guest elneenyo]

You're right with his negative tactics - being negative meant we ended up being the highest scorers in top flight football last season

 

We were also dead negative when we scored 126 goals.

 

We should play like Arsenal - the way that the easily walked the league for the last 3 years proves your argument

 

I just dont think we have been positive at all yet this season, we scored 126 goals was when we were playing some decent football in the 4-2-3-1 formation that we chanced upon when we were under pressure last season. I've seen no sign of that form returning this season and the lack of width and cohesion and poor passing need to be addressed sooner rather than later in my eyes...think he could be more positive and attacking with his team selection this year...also believe negativity cost us in the second Euro final against Milan....

Edited August 31, 2008 by elneenyo

[Murphman]

we weren't. we were 4th highest. 13 behind manu (who also conceded 6 less than us btw)

 

 

Including cups we were top scorers.

[Tones]

You are 0-0 in a league where the winner gets around 90 points and you bring in a left back to play as "winger". WTF?!!

 

It was bringing on Aurelio aswell as El Zhar in the last few games that gave us the width to go on and get the winner. Didnt work today but thats the reason he brought himon.