I'm not sure I want Liverpool to win tonight

[Andy @ Allerton]

Might sound like a stupid question - but with Manchester United already at the final - I really can see something terrible happening.

 

Chelsea dislike Manchester United (And Vice-versa) but that completely pales in comparison to the hatred between Manchester United and Liverpool.

 

Many of the usual people that you see going to the game have already said they are not travelling - and more and more of the decent normal people that support us are dropping out - due to the expense - and even more will probably drop out now that we would face the Mancs if we won.

 

If it was Liverpool v Manchester United. Every Airport. Every train station. Every ferry port. Every bus station across the UK and into Russia/Europe will be fighting Mancs and Reds. When they are there - every hotel, bar, street, dark alley, pub, restaurant, snack bar is going to be a running battle.

 

You've got virtually no police down there at present and the place is more or less run by the mafia. There are (from all accounts) many dangers to be had in Moscow and there is a fairly bad political situation between us and the Russians anyway. The police that are there will be extremely heavy handed and will be using riot gas and water cannons with gay abandon.

 

Add to that the actual ground (that I believe doesn't have turnstiles) - so you'll have literally thousands bunking - like in Athens - and although there are 21,000 at each end - you've got the x,000 in the middle (The 'UEFA Family') that will be completely mixed Liverpool/Manchester united - you imagine the scene - being in a ground - surrounded completely by Mancs (And them too) - you're telling me there won't be major kickoffs throughout the game - except there will be nowhere to back in to - nowhere to run - they will be all around - singing Heysel and Hillsbrough - and no doubt our lot singing Shipman and Munich.

 

There will be murder. It will be a complete bloodbath.

 

From a footballing sense of course I want us to qualify - but outside that I can see fatalities and a 5-10 year ban for English football.

 

IF we get there and we face THEM - then it will be unprecedented - Football will never ever see anything like it again.

 

Imagine if everything was calm and settled and one side or the other win the game - the other fans will be crowing and shouting and singing - do you think for one second the other fans will sit back and think 'Fine. Great. We've won against them in the final and they are around me now - laughing at me - poking me - shoving me..'.

 

No chance. Whichever side wins it will be total mayhem - and that will pale to what would happen outside the ground, in the bars, streets, squares, hotels, airports etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. afterwards.

 

Something similar will happen with Chelsea - but not as bad.

[Guest Prongsy]

f*** off Andy, mate.

 

I mean that in the nicest possible way, of course.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Prongsy

[Mike]

no trouble whatsoever in Cardiff in 03.

[Woodsyla]

I'm not going to Moscow whatever happens tonight, I promised the wife I wouldn't go to a United Liverpool final.

[Woodsyla]

no trouble whatsoever in Cardiff in 03.

 

Let's be honest though it didn't mean as much to either side as this does. Whover wins this game will have European bragging rights FOREVER*.

 

*Assuming we beat Chelsea blah blah blah chickens count hatch

[Andy @ Allerton]

no trouble whatsoever in Cardiff in 03.

 

I think this will be a different kettle of fish mate.

 

It's a completely foreign country - with more travel and more staying in congregating in more places for longer.

 

Most of Cardiff was them knowing where they wanted to go and us going to our bits (They kept a low profile due to Cardiff City knocking several shades out of them) and most travelling for a day then going home

 

This is going to be people literally travelling from all over the UK (The 2 top supported sides) and people sitting next to each other for hours side by side - imagine even getting off in the airport trying to get into the town itself - overcrowded trains completely mixed with belligerant Mancs/Liverpool fans - then all going to the same hotels and bars and squares - the more people get - the more the tension will increase - and it won't even stop when you go out for brekkie or anything - or sit in your hotel -because they are travelling and booking independantly all over the place - just everything you did over there would be a nightmare - you just couldn't relax for even one second.

[DaveLFC]

I'm not going, applied for my ticket but will be withdrawing that should we win tonight.

[Falconhoof]

I'm not going, applied for my ticket but will be withdrawing that should we win tonight.

 

Get the ticket if we get through. There'll be loads on here that would want it off you.

[Mike]

I think this will be a different kettle of fish mate.

 

It's a completely foreign country - with more travel and more staying in congregating in more places for longer.

 

Most of Cardiff was them knowing where they wanted to go and us going to our bits (They kept a low profile due to Cardiff City knocking several shades out of them) and most travelling for a day then going home

 

This is going to be people literally travelling from all over the UK (The 2 top supported sides) and people sitting next to each other for hours side by side - imagine even getting off in the airport trying to get into the town itself - overcrowded trains completely mixed with belligerant Mancs/Liverpool fans - then all going to the same hotels and bars and squares - the more people get - the more the tension will increase - and it won't even stop when you go out for brekkie or anything - or sit in your hotel -because they are travelling and booking independantly all over the place - just everything you did over there would be a nightmare - you just couldn't relax for even one second.

 

right...

 

IF we beat that shower of c***s tonight...

the cost and difficulty of moscow will put a lot of people (especially the less monied) off. that will mean most of the scalls wont be going anyway. there are literally no hotel rooms left anywhere in moscow im led to believe so a lot of people will be doing day trips.

ive also heard that fans are going to be segregated by airport over here...we have liverpool birmingham and heathrow, they have manchester east midlands and gatwick etc

 

of course - won't matter a jot if we don't win tonight!

[DaveLFC]

Get the ticket if we get through. There'll be loads on here that would want it off you.

 

While I understand that and would love to help others. By withdrawing my application the ticket will automatically go to someone entitled and with their passport details on and not mine.

 

My son and daughter and not happy about it but there's no way I would let them go to Moscow, never mind in a game against the mancs. I've been often myself and am there in June just three weeks after the final.

[The walters step over]

I find myself agreeing with you on this. For the good of our football club/city I really do hope that we don't go through tonight, it would be the biggest game in the history of English football and I just can't see how there won't be any kick offs around/inside the ground.

 

Obviously, Liverpool has its fair share of kn*bheads (as does Manchester) but even though there would be thousands of non Manc/scouse fans there the blame will still fall squarely at our cities doorstep. But above all else, it IS only a game and I couldn't give a flying f*ck if united win it - we've had more than our share of tragedies and I don't want to see another. The fact that in the last 3 years we've been to two finals and both have passed off relatively quietly will not come into it, it wuill still be seen by many as those Liverpool fans at it again. It just isn't worth it.

[Guest Ant]

I want to win, but I understand Andy's concerns...

 

At the end of the day I think it's sad that I myself can't trust the 'minority' of Liverpool Fans to behave should we face the Mancs in Moscow.

 

I'm sure some of the Man Utd fans feel the same, of course I want us to win and of course I want us to go to Moscow, but it could be a lose-lose situation, regardless if we beat Chelsea or not.

[Gunga Din]

if we get through tonight, i'd say you'd get pretty short odds on people dying in Moscow as a result of football violence. It will be f***ing chaos. there will be fighting on planes, in airports, in hotels, teh "Neutral " section will be a mix of United and liverpool fans who have blagged tickets either through the ballot or on the black market. it will be a f***ing shambles

[psl]

They really should move it to Wembley now.

 

Won't though.

[Guest Prongsy]

They would be stupid, f***ing stupid not to change the venue, even if they have to re-arrange the date. That's not going to happen of course but both clubs need to lobby for it.

 

We all know there will, at the very least, be violence and maybe as Andy says; severe violence - so UEFA and the clubs need to pre-empt this, they must be smart whilst they have the chance.

 

Not going to happen, I know.

[Guest Ant]

They really should move it to Wembley now.

 

Won't though.

 

The only way that it could be moved Locally, is if Wembley, UEFA, Sky, all the TV Companies gave EVERYTHING to the Russian F.A .

 

But it's London, it's in tight a*** Wembley, and it's not going to happen.

[The walters step over]

They really should move it to Wembley now.

 

Won't though.

 

 

You can see their point though, can't you? two Spaniish teams have played each other and two Italian teams have met in CL finals - why should the English be treated differently? The fact that UEFA were told that Moscow isn't the best place tio hold the final (like Istanbul, and indeed Heysel) won't mean that they will accept any of the blame should anything happen. By all accounts, Istanbul was ready made for violence with rubble lying everywhere and it is to our fans credit that nothing happened - of course, our fans relatively good behaviour since being back in Europe (especially around the 3 finals) won't be worth a f*cking carrot when it comes to assigning blame when things kick off.

[Flight]

Might sound like a stupid question - but with Manchester United already at the final - I really can see something terrible happening.

 

Chelsea dislike Manchester United (And Vice-versa) but that completely pales in comparison to the hatred between Manchester United and Liverpool.

 

 

Spot on. There would be blood spilt, at the least.

 

 

I want us to win but I fear for the consequences.

[psl]

We've not qualified yet and we have to win or get a score draw at a ground where the home team haven't lost for years. Let's worry about this tomorrow, if we need to.

[Flasher]

I think people's imaginations are running wild and they need to lay off the Dr Pepper.

 

The Russian police will not tolerate anything. In fact, they will probably be so damn intent on there not being trouble that they'd be more chance of trouble if it were at Wembley.

 

I bet Gerrard and Carragher are desperate to get there, more than ever now.

[uncle bob]

Understand concerns - always want to beat manx but if it does kick off and you will get good odds on that - Could see another five year ban and not sure we would recover from that with all the lost revenue and refusal of top players to join us

 

But wouldnt it be sweet to beat old red nose in the final - shut him up for life

[Falconhoof]

There'd be skirmishes but what are people expecting that would result in deaths and 10 year bans ?

[Guest Toxteth O'Grady]

Some people worry too much, bloody drama queens.

 

Lets face it, they couldn't have picked a worst place to go if you wanted to cause trouble. Nightmare getting in and out, ultra expensive, trigger happy Russian plod and military everywhere. I just can't see any major trouble kicking off. I'm sure there'll be minor incidents all over the place, but it's EC final, you expect that.

[Guest Beano's Dad]

I can't believe I am hearing all this.

 

Our fans NOT wanting us to win. So what is it tonight? An honourable draw 1-1 with them getting a dodgy offside goal and then winning on penalties?

 

I understand that there are plenty of total f***wits that follow every club. The history of English clubs abroad is really all history now although I accept this one is a bit of an anomaly. I was at the home game this season and their fans are just really not f***ing nice. Despicable would be a mild overview.

 

It takes away the "fixed draw" factor at the quarter final stage as the one final UEFA may have wanted to avoid was us v Mancs. Mind you they probably buried their heads in the sand at that one. I mean when did they last plan anything?

 

Could have been played at Wembley but look at the indirect revenue lost in Moscow.

 

It is an all English final whatever happens now and that has been on the cards for a very long time. Perhaps the various FA's in Europe and UEFA should make plans a bit more fluid for these eventualities. Perhaps the award of a final being played in future should come with a proviso that if two clubs from the same country qualify for the final then that should be held in that country. That country then misses out on their next turn to stage a final as someone else would have missed out when it was moved. Look at the expense the two Spanish sides had to get to Glasgow last season.

 

For all the revenue it brings in it also brings chaos to any location.

 

The mood swing on here is from fear of who has bragging rights to fear of loss of life. Totally understandable with the latter but for those who subscribe to the former where is your bottle? This is football at the peak of the game. Forget the WC and the EC this is the top top TOP tournament in the world. Players blended from the best in the world playing against each other. Not scratch teams thrown together 6 times a year for 10 days at a time.

 

So please do not wish us to lose a match.

I'd rather win it and then not play the final if what you guys fear most has any chance of coming true.

[dorgie]

The local gangs are probably as big a threat to security as any ManU v LFC fan clashes. I heard a few stories of Irish fans getting a hammering or two late at night by the locals when Ireland played over there a few years ago.

 

On the positive side, Moscow has 4 airports which should help a little with segregation and getting people in and out of Moscow (unlike Athens where the airport was just pure bedlam for the 24hours after the game).

Edited April 30, 2008 by dorgie