The Dirk Kuyt 'Penalty'

[Andy @ Allerton]

The way I look at penalties is this: If I did whatever the offence was to someone standing next to me - would they fall over?

 

If Kuyt had 'pulled the player over' - we wouldn't be having this discussion - it would be a clear penalty - and the conversation would be over.

 

But he didn't did he? Due to Sky's biased coverage - we saw it about 20 times in 5 minutes.

 

He certainly touched the player - he had his hand around his arm as he ran past - but his arm didn't 'pull' - but there was pressure. The referee watched very carefully if you see his position - he was waiting to see what the Arsenal player would do - and what he did was drop theatrically to the floor - in a different direction to the pressure of the offending player.

 

It's simple physics.

 

IF he'd pulled him - and the Arsenal player (Rather than obviously diving) had dove in the direction the 'pull' was supposed to have come from - then the referee may have given the penalty as that would have been more convincing.

 

Saying that - if it had been outside the area it would have been given. Most things are.

 

It certainly wasn't anywhere near as cast iron as the pen that Torres should have had.

 

But I wouldn't have been surprised to see it given - the Arsenal players had been dropping theatrically to the floor through pretty much all the game.

 

I mustered no suprise whatsoever that the much more obvious looking penalty at the other end (Where Torres was dragged over) - didn't even get a single mention or replay from Sky during the game. The only time in the entire game where Gray shut his gob for 20 seconds.

[Woodsyla]

Definite penalty, we were lucky, move on ....

[sutty]

Definite penalty, we were lucky, move on ....

 

I think the more I see it, the less clear cut it was. At 1st glance, I thought it was stone wall.

 

I'm not so sure now. I think what Andy is getting at is the reaction to it seems over the top.

 

That said, if it'd been on one of ours I'd be whinging about it now.

[Woodsyla]

I think the more I see it, the less clear cut it was. At 1st glance, I thought it was stone wall.

 

I'm not so sure now. I think what Andy is getting at is the reaction to it seems over the top.

 

That said, if it'd been on one of ours I'd be whinging about it now.

 

If you grab a blokes arm and he falls over it's a pen.

[MFletcher]

Hleb went down like he'd just taken an anvil to the head. It made it look like an exaggerated fall, thus it wasn't given.

[Red]

I agree Andy. Helb goes down as a reaction to Kuyts holding, not because of it. You could clearly see Helb do it in one of the skysports-extra-special-super-slow-mo's, shown later.

[Gomez]

Hleb went down like he'd just taken an anvil to the head. It made it look like an exaggerated fall, thus it wasn't given.

 

It was 50:50, some you get, some you don't. Hleb making a meal of it probably went against them. We've had our fair share of similar appeals denied, it's hardly the Styles-esque blunder Sly were making out.

[RP]

Very surprised it wasn't given.

[mofus77]

Saying that - if it had been outside the area it would have been given. Most things are.

 

The ref last night let a lot of similar things go outside the area, to his credit I think.

[sutty]

If you grab a blokes arm and he falls over it's a pen.

 

Technically he shouldn't have to fall over

[sutty]

The ref last night let a lot of similar things go outside the area, to his credit I think.

 

I thought he went too far the other way personally.

Edited April 3, 2008 by sutty

[Woodsyla]

Technically he shouldn't have to fall over

 

True, put it this way, if that is Hleb grabbing Kuyt what would your reaction be when the pen is not awarded.

[Cobs]

The way I look at penalties is this: If I did whatever the offence was to someone standing next to me - would they fall over?

 

Brilliant ! Just made that up have you ?

 

It's a game of football, people run about the benchmark is not what would happen if they were standing still, FFS !!!

 

 

it was a penalty

 

all day long

 

 

this place would be in meltdown, with screams of bent referees if that had gone against us.

 

We got lucky on that decision, GOOD !!!!!

[Hassony]

We got lucky on that decision, GOOD !!!!!

 

Exactly, I always like it when the other team feel cheated, Mourinho still has nightmares about the garcia goal

[Tyler]

remember sami was penalised last night for climbing on one of the arsenal players - came over the top of him and headed

 

free given

 

how was that different to the united goal couple of weeks ago

 

sometimes they are given and sometimes not

 

i thought ref did well last night - wasn't overly fussy or card happy and most of all was consistent

[sutty]

True, put it this way, if that is Hleb grabbing Kuyt what would your reaction be when the pen is not awarded.

Read my 1st response

 

As I said, if it were one of ours, my view mightbe more pragmatic

[ManxRed]

Exactly, I always like it when the other team feel cheated, Mourinho still has nightmares about the garcia goal

 

They interviewed Gallas about it on Sky before the match last night. He too discussed what might have been (Chelsea winning) but completely failed to mention the goalie being sent off and a penalty being given. FFS, Sky, Chelsea, and everyone else involved, JUST... LET... IT... GO!!

 

 

EDIT: By the way, it was a penno. We were lucky that Hleb talked the referee out of giving it by going down like a dying swan. For us it might help to balance out the crap decisions we've had against us this season, but I can understand the a*** fans being hacked off about it. Good to see Arsene saw the incident though, makes a change for him! Maybe he's been to Specsavers.

Edited April 3, 2008 by ManxRed

[Andy @ Allerton]

Brilliant ! Just made that up have you ?

 

It's a game of football, people run about the benchmark is not what would happen if they were standing still, FFS !!!

it was a penalty

 

all day long

this place would be in meltdown, with screams of bent referees if that had gone against us.

 

We got lucky on that decision, GOOD !!!!!

 

"this place would be in meltdown, with screams of bent referees if that had gone against us."

 

A worse decision DID go against us - the Torres one was a nailed-on penalty - dragged down clearly.

 

Can't see too many people on here screaming.

 

It happens.

[yellow jumper]

it's possible to remain standing after getting punched.

[Cobs]

"this place would be in meltdown, with screams of bent referees if that had gone against us."

 

A worse decision DID go against us - the Torres one was a nailed-on penalty - dragged down clearly.

nonsense

[Tones]

It was a pen. Glad it wasnt given but really believe it should have been.

[Andy @ Allerton]

nonsense

 

 

It was a clear penalty - even if Sky didn't notice.

[Herbie von Smalls]

if it were that stonewall a penalty the ref would've given it, seeing as he had a perfect view.

 

from the tv coverage there was one angle were it looked a clear cut foul, yet from another angle it's seemingly equally clear cut that hleb went down under his own force. it seemed to me that the ref gave us the benefit of the doubt because hleb's 'crumple' was not true to the momentum of his run.

 

we hear often enough that the defender's reaction is often telling, fwiw kuyt's (to hleb) appeared to be one of somebody incensed that the opponent would try and con the ref, rather than one of someone trying to cover his tracks. he didn't haul him down, but there was enough contact for the official to justify a penalty.

 

we would've been collectively apoplectic if the situation had been reversed, but them's the breaks.

[Guest Prongsy]

If you grab a blokes arm and he falls over it's a pen.

 

Agree.

 

If only Kuyt grabbed his arm.

 

It was probably a pen, but it wasn't clear cut. Hleb was his own worst enemy, twisting and throwing himself to the ground after the fact, it just looked like a horrid dive.

[Cobs]

we hear often enough that the defender's reaction is often telling, fwiw kuyt's (to hleb) appeared to be one of somebody incensed that the opponent would try and con the ref, rather than one of someone trying to cover his tracks. he didn't haul him down, but there was enough contact for the official to justify a penalty.

 

you didn't notice Carragher's (with an equally clear view 5-10 yards away) reaction to it then ?

 

Kuyt pulled his arm knocking him off balance as he was running, plain as day - it was akin to Gatusso on Gerrard in Istanbul.

 

 

The fact the referee got it wrong doesn't mean it wasn't stonewwall - ref's get stuff wrong all the time e.g Rob Styles has come up with two belting penalty decisions this season - wrong on both occasions - it happens. We got lucky this time and i'm very happy about that.