The System Liverpool play

[Guest Ant]

Yesterday was probably in my opinion the best Football we have played, and yes I believe it was better than the Football we played v Besiktas.

 

Now the most fustrating thing is, probably be it v United or in the next few weeks the system of which we play will change either..

 

A: Pending on the opposition

B: Pending on who Benitez wants to play in that system.

 

Arsenal are the bext example of how if you keep to the same system, and maniuplate your playing around that system and not vice versa than you can pretty much gurantee consistancy. Now I believe our players are better than the ones that are at Arsenal, and it makes me angry and fustrated, that no matter how good we play, it will change, pending a miracle.

 

Benitez has a thing for swapping players, and suiting the system to which the players play.

 

If Crouch played yesterday or Sissoko, that system would of changed, and it shouldn't be like that, the players should be able to fit into the system when need be, this is also where the rotation element comes into it.

 

How come that (In my opinion) we played Second rate players in Sissoko, Voronin v Reading and played a system NONE of our players where comfortable with? Crouch Left Midfield, For f***s sake?

 

If you must include the likes of Voronin and Sissoko, make sure there is a reason for them to play, be it injury to players above them, and don't play the system according to the players of which are playing.

 

What was wrong with?

 

Crouch and Torres or Voronin and Torres

 

With a Left Midfielder actually playing Left Midfield.

 

We have played so many different systems this season, some have worked, others have not, but more often than not our winning formula just seems to go out the window, when it doesn't have to be the case.

 

Whats the worst that could of happend v Reading if indeed the starting line up was the same as the one v Marseille, if someone got injured, you put someone else in their, thats the whole reason for a strong squad, you put your players in to fit into the system, thats why Arsenal have seemed to have got back to the ways of which they played in their unbeaten season.

 

They haven't missed Viera, they haven't missed Henry, nor Pires or Ljunberg because they have kept the same system for over 5 years, and groomed their players to play in the said position. It's worked wonders for them.

 

The WHOLE reason why strong squads are brilliant is that you can use the second rate players when the first team players are injured? I mean the inclusion of Sissoko was incredibly random, What about Lucas? who has been a lot better in 3 weeks than Sissoko has been 12 months?...It's bizarre, I don't see the reasonsing because he only played 5 or so minutes v Marseille and to my knowledge he wasn't injured.

 

It annoys the me and many other fans, that Benitez insists on changing the system for what ever reason when we have perfectly able, perfectly fit players that can play and will do a lot better job than the ones of which he has chosen.

 

You don't pick a system to fit around the players, you pick the players to fit around the system, and with a good system comes a core of players that MUST start whenever fit,.

 

Reina

 

Finnan Agger Carra ????

 

???? Alonso Gerrard Kewell

 

Torres ????

 

That core of players in my opinion could beat anyone in the league, fill in the blanks for yourself based on form and recent performances, and for gods sake if someone plays well, stick with them, Benayoun for example is proving crucial the more he plays this season, will he start v United?, I wouldn't bet on it.

 

I believe with our squad, we can win the league and do still hold the belief that the biggest obstacle to winning this league is Benitez himself.

[Rimbeux]

Players have different strengths and play in differing systems. You're making a really naive point

 

Man Utd play three different systems. 4-4-2-0 with Rooney and Tevez furthest, 4-4-1-1 with Saha up front, 4-3-3 with Anderson pushing forward behind a single striker. The also sometimes deploy Giggs in central midfield, as a striker as well as wide. Rooney spends a deal of time out left of a front three, as does Ronaldo.

 

 

Chelsea play three different systems. 4-3-3 with Drogba, fairly direct with two players wide, 4-3-3 with Shevchenko and two support players tucked in, more passing, and 4-4-2.

 

 

Arsenal play three different systems. 4-5-1 with Adebayor up front on his own, 4-4-2 with Van Persie and an-other up front and 4-3-3 with Van Persie and Walcott wide.

 

 

Rafa uses three (was four) different systems. 4-4-2, 4-4-1-1 and 4-3-3. The first you saw last night, the second, which is Gerrard off the striker, mainly in the CL 05, but it's still used, the third you saw v Arsenal, Reading, Blackburn and Newcastle this season for examples.

 

 

What you wont take is that players have different strengths and systems will be changed by all managers to allow for that and to get the best out of them. If you dont, you can only ever use certain players, only ever play one way and will soon be found out when you have to replace players or deal with a side that's worked you out.

[Cobs]

i dont have any problem with different systems, it's getting the right personnel to play them is where we've been going wrong

[Jambo]

Ant for manager.

 

If you think Rafa's holding us back, you clearly don't know you're born. Be very very careful what you wish for.

[Bigal]

ever been happy Ant?

[Rimbeux]

i dont have any problem with different systems, it's getting the right personnel to play them is where we've been going wrong

 

That's a valid argument, and you can place Newcastle and Reading next to each other, or Marseille home and away, or Brum and Bolton home as places to look at.

[Guest Ant]

ever been happy Ant?

 

You'd be suprised.

 

I'm pretty happy now baring the flu.

[Cunny]

i dont have any problem with different systems, it's getting the right personnel to play them is where we've been going wrong

 

 

correct

433 with voronin and crouch providing the width is bonkers

[matty]

ever been happy Ant?

Mama said to me we gotta have your life run right

Off you got to school where you can learn the rules there right

Be just like your dad lad

Follow in the same tradition

Never go astray and stay an honest lovin' son

 

Son of my father

Moulded, I was folded, I was preform-packed

Son of my father

Commanded, I was branded in a plastic vac'

Surrounded and confounded by statistic facts

[Bigal]

You'd be suprised.

 

I'm pretty happy now baring the flu.

 

see, its weird, the formation has never bothered me, I remember playing newcastle away, winning 3-1 and we played agger, carra and sami.

 

that formation was never seen again.

 

rafa picks teams and formation from game to game, and I like it so far I must admit. If we dont know how we are set up how do the oppo???

[Skillz]

The thread title should read "The Systems Liverpool play".

 

That is where Rafa is taking us. Being able to play different styles on call, from each game and within each game. Rafa is an innovative Manager always looking deeper into the team, squad, opposition and himself. Occassionally he f***s up but he does change his team a lot so he is always available for criticism.

 

He does have a winning ratio that is comparable to any LFC manager (only behind Kenny, I think). In otherwords it is easier to criticise a manager who experiments compared to a traditional (for want of a better word) manager. I think it is amazing how well he disects sides in Europe, particularly Chelsea x2, Juventes, Barca.

[Cobs]

see, its weird, the formation has never bothered me, I remember playing newcastle away, winning 3-1 and we played agger, carra and sami.

 

that formation was never seen again.

 

rafa picks teams and formation from game to game, and I like it so far I must admit. If we dont know how we are set up how do the oppo???

they look at it from the kick off and go 'Crouch and Voronin playing wide? HAPPY DAYS !!!!'

[Bigal]

they look at it from the kick off and go 'Crouch and Voronin playing wide? HAPPY DAYS !!!!'

 

are they phil f***ing tuffnell?

[Cobs]

are they phil f***ing tuffnell?

 

 

and if Tuffers can spot what you're up to then you know you're in trouble

[Bigal]

and if Tuffers can spot what you're up to then you know you're in trouble

 

the doped up dopey c***.

 

probably to busy releasing his next tuffers duffer crazy antics dvd

[ManxRed]

Man Utd play three different systems. 4-4-2-0 with Rooney and Tevez furthest,

 

And Claude Rains just ahead of them?

[Buzz]

Zenden was on ITV4 last night before the game discussing this, saying that it makes it hard for opposition teams to come up with a game plan, because even Liverpool players won't know till the last minute which team or formation it will be.

[Rimbeux]

And Claude Rains just ahead of them?

 

 

Aye, they nicked it off Roma, a system with no centre forward, no reference point, where a couple of midfielders hold and four players move about in attack swapping positions so they cannot be marked. Downside is that with no-one being sure to be in the centre forward position, it can struggle for end product.

[Guest Ant]

Zenden was on ITV4 last night before the game discussing this, saying that it makes it hard for opposition teams to come up with a game plan, because even Liverpool players won't know till the last minute which team or formation it will be.

 

Is that a good thing though?

 

I mean everyone knows Arsenal pass the ball into the net, when they won the league no one could stop them.

 

We looked unstoppable yesterday.

[Skillz]

Zenden was on ITV4 last night before the game discussing this, saying that it makes it hard for opposition teams to come up with a game plan, because even Liverpool players won't know till the last minute which team or formation it will be.

 

 

Exactly. Makes you realise why Rafa always says any new player must have "intelligence". Also why Cisse was never going to work in Rafa's systems. Not having a go at Cisse there, just pointing out he is a very 1 dimensional and limited player.

[MFletcher]

It's a very naive point to make.

 

I doubt you were complaining about a 3-0 win with a 4-3-3 system at Newcastle. Or when we were going away last season and hammering certain teams with a 3-4-3. Rafa experiments with the formation occasionally because he wants us to have a Plan A, Plan B, Plan C etc. Occasionally we get it wrong and don't get a result - the knives come out and the hacks have a field day, blaming rotation, the system, the players, the weather, Rafa's beard etc. Rafa looks at the bigger picture.

 

We want to be able to slot into a 3-4-3, 4-3-3, 4-2-1-3, 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2 with ease. We get the odd blip, but these things happen.

 

And regarding the Reading selection, you can look at it this way:

 

- Hyypia was rested at the weekend and was immense last night.

- Kewell was rested and was immense last night.

- Kuyt was rested and was immense last night.

- Benayoun was rested and was superb.

- Torres and Gerrard were both brought off and they were brilliant last night.

 

The Reading selection was made with this game in mind. Rafa was probably told that CL progression was a necessity for him to be given money in January - and he'll want that to tie up Masch, buy a couple of players etc. Looking at the bigger picture, which is more important? One league game or CL progression given the prestige and money involved?

 

To steal a line from someone on RAWK:

 

The great Arrigo Sacchi believes Benitez is a master, who reminds him of himself when he was younger. On the other hand, Ant from YNWA.tv is confused by what he's doing.

Edited December 12, 2007 by MFletcher

[Hassony]

The great Arrigo Sacchi believes Benitez is a master, who reminds him of himself when he was younger. On the other hand, Ant from YNWA.tv is confused by what he's doing.

 

Sacchi and Rafa in one corner, Ant and Charlie Nicholas in the other corner

[honourablegeorge]

Yesterday was probably in my opinion the best Football we have played, and yes I believe it was better than the Football we played v Besiktas.

 

Seriously?

 

Delighted with the win and all, but I certainly didn't see a great performance from us.

[cymrococh]

Delighted with the win and all, but I certainly didn't see a great performance from us.

Seriously?

 

That was an absolutely excellent performance.

[TheLa]

Arsenal looked f***ing terrible against Boro the other day, why didn't Wenger change his system? Is it because his system is one dimensional? Or is it because he's a one dimensional manager with little or no ability to change things when things aren't going his way? No, it's because his players didn't perform in his system. It happens, even to the greatest manager and team in the world ever bar none, no backsies and all that. They struggled against Newcastle as well but got a draw, they struggled against Villa but won. All those teams worked hard to close Arsenal down, give them as little time on the ball as possible and looked to sneak a goal or two to get them a result. Each time it worked but the outcomes were different.

 

Let Rafa get on with his job. He's not Arsene Wenger nor does he want to be Arsene Wenger. He has his own ideas, sometimes they work and we look f***ing great sometimes they don't and we look f***ing s****, other times they don't work but we win anyway and others they work and we lose. It's football, lad.