Mark Lawrenson...

[The_Adder]

Here...l

 

Message to Rafa: Play your match-winners and see

 

Oct 9 2007

 

by Mark Lawrenson, Liverpool Daily Post

 

 

I HATE having to say this when talking about how Liverpool can overcome their current wobble. But I wish Rafael Benitez would sometimes follow the example of Sir Alex Ferguson at Manchester United – and just play his match-winners.

 

Because, shock horror, match-winners win you matches.

 

And Liverpool have them too. Fernando Torres definitely. Ryan Babel looks like one when he comes on. Yossi Benayoun proved to be one at Wigan last week Andriy Voronin could have been one on Sunday before the defence went missing

 

All those players did eventually feature against Spurs, but it beats me why they can’t all be on the pitch at the same time from the off.

 

If you have all of those players out there, one of them is bound to produce something at some point.

 

United haven’t played well in the early part of this season but throughout that spell they kept winning games.

 

Like 1-0 in Lisbon, Ronaldo. 1-0 at Birmingham, Ronaldo again. 1-0 against Roma, Rooney.

 

Then on Saturday, what does Ferguson do? He sends out a team with Giggs, Scholes, Rooney, Ronaldo AND Tevez.

 

That’s an example of a manager not over-complicating things, just trusting his big players to come up with the moments that win you games and, in the long run, titles.

 

I would love to see Benitez send out that kind of a line-up, especially as the biggest match-winner of them all, Steven Gerrard, isn’t in his best form at the moment.

 

When that happens, you need to give yourself the best chance possible of finding those flashes of inspiration and you can only do that by playing as many of the players who are capable of doing it as possible.

 

It’s not even as if Benitez needs to be cautious and pick a team that has to compensate for a dodgy defence.

 

Yes, the goals given away against Tottenham were awful but, let’s face it, that sort of thing doesn’t happen very often, does it?

 

The back four is generally very solid and way good enough to cope when Liverpool commit to attack.

 

The culture of modern football means things tend to get over-analysed. But if you’ve got players that can win you games, for heaven’s sake play them.

 

I go back to Babel on this one. I’ve been impressed with what I’ve seen from him because when he comes on he looks strong, powerful and hell bent on making something happen.

 

But how is he supposed to do that if he doesn’t get a run of starts and gets used to playing in that team? Isn’t that the point of forking out that money for him in the first place?

 

Anyone who has played football will tell you how important it is for team-mates it develop partnerships and understandings. It means you know exactly what each other are going to do and makes it far easier for players, especially new ones, to settle in.

 

Change things all the time and you don’t have that base to work from.

 

So I think the answer lies in Benitez getting his match-winners together, picking a side around them and saying, ‘right, you’re the team for a month now. Let’s see how you go.’

 

He should keep that line-up unchanged, within reason.

 

With vital Champions League group games plus a Merseyside derby and visit of Arsenal to contend with, that might be a gamble.

 

But did anyone ever win titles by not taking a few of those every now and then?

 

-------------------------------

 

Actually agree with that. Those players together would make a lot of difference.

[Flasher]

I think Torres and Veronin are our best two up front.

 

I want to see Babel more.

 

Yossi or Pennant - either really.

 

I guess I agree with "Lawro" then. Dammit!!

Edited October 9, 2007 by Flasher

[honourablegeorge]

Lawro jumping on the MOTD/Sky rotation bandwagon. As per.

[_00_deathscar]

We've been playing Gerrard and Torres for God knows how many last few games - how many of those have we won?

[IgPig]

Talking s***e as usual.

[The_Adder]

Talking s***e as usual.

 

He's basically saying "play your match winners", of which Pennant and Riise are not included and Yossi, Ryan and Voronin are. Remind me who played on the wings the on Sat?

 

Prob the 1st time in history of his speaking I've agreed with him. Play Babel, Benni, Voronin, Torres, Gerrard in the same team and we might start to score goals more.

[Guest spk]

such a load of bulls***. theres a reason why c***s like that retire into media rather than being paid a hell of a lot more to manage - theyre not good enough.

 

that aside lets look at a few of scums last few games - the value in brackets is the number of changes made from the previous weeks starting line up:

 

vs Wigan (3):

Kuszczak,

Pique

, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, O'Shea, Scholes,

Giggs

, Rooney, Tevez

 

vs Roma (4):

Kuszczak

,

O'Shea

, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes,

Nani

,

Saha

, Rooney

 

vs Birmingham (0):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Rooney, Tevez

 

vs Chelsea (1):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Tevez,

Rooney

 

vs Everton (4):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic,

Silvestre

,

Ronaldo

,

Carrick

, Scholes, Evra,

Giggs

, Tevez, Nani

 

vs Sunderland (...):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Eagles, Hargreaves, Scholes, Nani, Anderson, Tevez

You can keep going back and you'll see the same thing. So what can we take away from this? Is rafa the only manager to chop and change or is the rotation hype some other bulls*** invented by the media (i.e.: see also Sven, Houlier, Wenger for a good while, Ranieri, etc) that some of you mugs buy into?

 

Rotating players is a natural thing to do. Unfortunately when your central core of players doesnt turn up results arent going to go your way. These are professionals and get paid a hell of a lot of money to be motivated and play to the top of their games. The teams rafa has been putting out in the past few weeks have been f***ing strong. We even used every striker in our arsenal against Brum and still our players couldnt find it in themselves to take three points away.

 

I couldn't care less if they are unhappy with Pako's departure - man up for f***s sake, and that goes for you whinging c***s as well

[Flasher]

The article is crap.

 

The idea of starting with Babel, Torres, Yossi, Veronin and Gerrard isn't though.

[IgPig]

He's basically saying "play your match winners", of which Pennant and Riise are not included and Yossi, Ryan and Voronin are. Remind me who played on the wings the on Sat?

 

Prob the 1st time in history of his speaking I've agreed with him. Play Babel, Benni, Voronin, Torres, Gerrard in the same team and we might start to score goals more.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with those players playing because they are good players, but Riise is more of a proven match winner than any of them (and I don't like Riise).

 

Lawrenson is, as usual, taking the lazy option & jumping on the nearest bandwagon. Everything he says is a short cut to actual analysis.

Edited October 9, 2007 by Post Kuytal Glow

[Knox_Harrington]

such a load of bulls***. theres a reason why c***s like that retire into media rather than being paid a hell of a lot more to manage - theyre not good enough.

 

that aside lets look at a few of scums last few games - the value in brackets is the number of changes made from the previous weeks starting line up:

 

vs Wigan (3):

Kuszczak,

Pique

, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, O'Shea, Scholes,

Giggs

, Rooney, Tevez

 

vs Roma (4):

Kuszczak

,

O'Shea

, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes,

Nani

,

Saha

, Rooney

 

vs Birmingham (0):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Rooney, Tevez

 

vs Chelsea (1):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Tevez,

Rooney

 

vs Everton (4):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic,

Silvestre

,

Ronaldo

,

Carrick

, Scholes, Evra,

Giggs

, Tevez, Nani

 

vs Sunderland (...):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Eagles, Hargreaves, Scholes, Nani, Anderson, Tevez

You can keep going back and you'll see the same thing. So what can we take away from this? Is rafa the only manager to chop and change or is the rotation hype some other bulls*** invented by the media (i.e.: see also Sven, Houlier, Wenger for a good while, Ranieri, etc) that some of you mugs buy into?

 

Rotating players is a natural thing to do. Unfortunately when your central core of players doesnt turn up results arent going to go your way. These are professionals and get paid a hell of a lot of money to be motivated and play to the top of their games. The teams rafa has been putting out in the past few weeks have been f***ing strong. We even used every striker in our arsenal against Brum and still our players couldnt find it in themselves to take three points away.

 

I couldn't care less if they are unhappy with Pako's departure - man up for f***s sake, and that goes for you whinging c***s as well

I agree with rotation in general terms but your example with reference to United is s***.

 

Ronaldo comes back from suspension and then plays every game, Rooney comes back from injury and then plays every game. Carrick replaces the injured Hargreaves, Scholes plays every game. Kuszczak replaces the injured van der Sar, O'Shea replaces the injured Brown and Saha's on his way back from injury. He is clearly protecting Giggs but he plays a high energy position and is getting on - though it is a valid observation.

[Guest Kaizer]

Well you could always play Riise at LB, so playing someone else on the left does not mean dropping him, just getting one more matchwinner into the team.

[mooks]

Talking s***e as usual.

Too right. This is someone who couldn't make the grade managing Oxford United, who was the "defensive coach" responsible for the water-tight Newcastle defence under Keegan. Yet he can tell Rafa how to win titles.

 

Talking sense? He's probably been on YNWA and is taking the lead from some of the clowns on here.

 

If you really want to read sense then I suggest concentrating on anything written by Ian Rush.

[Guest Kaizer]

So based on what you have just written, what gives Rush any better credentials?

 

Not that I disagree, just could not follow your logic based on their success as managers/coaches.

[mooks]

So based on what you have just written, what gives Rush any better credentials?

 

Not that I disagree, just could not follow your logic based on their success as managers/coaches.

Ian Rush does not tell Rafa how to manage Liverpool Football Club. He tries to explain what he thinks is going on and sometimes tries to predict what will happen. Do you see the difference?

 

Besides, Rush was an assistant coach at Liverpool, Lawrenson at Newcastle. I think that says it all about their respective abilities

[usualsuspect]

Too right. This is someone who couldn't make the grade managing Oxford United, who was the "defensive coach" responsible for the water-tight Newcastle defence under Keegan. Yet he can tell Rafa how to win titles.

 

Talking sense? He's probably been on YNWA and is taking the lead from some of the clowns on here.

 

If you really want to read sense then I suggest concentrating on anything written by Ian Rush.

 

Sorry but that's very narrow minded thinking.

 

Lawro may not have cut the grade in coaching but that article couldn't be closer to the truth. With all due respect to Benitez but he has not cut the grade in the premiership YET and until he does he will be questioned if his tactics are not reaping the rewards expected of LFC. Time will tell if his tactics will work this season but the last few games are not encouraging.

 

To be fair there are key players who have dipped in form but I dont remember us giving GH much leeway when that happened under him. Its not crazy to suggest that Rafa needs to find a way to shake themout of the lull. Anyone managing LFC will always be under pressure to succeed - esp in the league and it only gets worse with time.

Edited October 9, 2007 by usualsuspect

[Guest spk]

Ian Rush does not tell Rafa how to manage Liverpool Football Club. He tries to explain what he thinks is going on and sometimes tries to predict what will happen. Do you see the difference?

 

Besides, Rush was an assistant coach at Liverpool, Lawrenson at Newcastle. I think that says it all about their respective abilities

 

couldnt agree more

[Guest spk]

Ian Rush does not tell Rafa how to manage Liverpool Football Club. He tries to explain what he thinks is going on and sometimes tries to predict what will happen. Do you see the difference?

 

Besides, Rush was an assistant coach at Liverpool, Lawrenson at Newcastle. I think that says it all about their respective abilities

 

couldnt agree more

[mooks]

Sorry but that's very narrow minded thinking.

 

Lawro may not have cut the grade in coaching but that article couldn't be closer to the truth. With all due respect to Benitez but he has not cut the grade in the premiership YET and until he does he will be questioned if his tactics are not reaping the rewards expected of LFC. Time will tell if his tactics will work this season but the last few games are not encouraging.

 

To be fair there are key players who have dipped in form but I dont remember us giving GH much leeway when that happened under him. Its not crazy to suggest that Rafa needs to find a way to shake themout of the lull. Anyone managing LFC will always be under pressure to succeed - esp in the league and it only gets worse with time.

Did you actually read the article?

 

Lawrenson wasn't questioning whether Rafa has what it takes to succeed in the Premiership. He was telling him specifically what he has to do. Namely, play Torres, Gerrard, Benayoun, Babel, and Voronin in every game for a month. Apparently Lawro in his wisdom has decided these are our "matchwinners".

 

The truth? Delusional thinking is what it is. Lawrenson wouldn't be out of place as a regular poster on this forum - and I mean that.

[The Guv]

Did you actually read the article?

 

Lawrenson wasn't questioning whether Rafa has what it takes to succeed in the Premiership. He was telling him specifically what he has to do. Namely, play Torres, Gerrard, Benayoun, Babel, and Voronin in every game for a month. Apparently Lawro in his wisdom has decided these are our "matchwinners".

 

The truth? Delusional thinking is what it is. Lawrenson wouldn't be out of place as a regular poster on this forum - and I mean that.

 

Mooks, do you really think Lawrenson's views were delusional?

 

Who are our "match-winners" if not the four or five mentioned?

 

Do you not see the logic in what he's saying; that consistantly playing these players from the start will give us a better chance of winning matches at a time when we're not performing? (and I wonder why)

 

We're a load of rotated rubbish at the moment and a bit of consistancy, mixed with the starting of our "match-winners" (within reason) will go a long way.

 

Or maybe I'm also delusional.

[mooks]

Mooks, do you really think Lawrenson's views were delusional?

 

Who are our "match-winners" if not the four or five mentioned?

 

Do you not see the logic in what he's saying; that consistantly playing these players from the start will give us a better chance of winning matches at a time when we're not performing? (and I wonder why)

 

We're a load of rotated rubbish at the moment and a bit of consistancy, mixed with the starting of our "match-winners" (within reason) will go a long way.

 

Or maybe I'm also delusional.

I think David Hodgson said it all recently when he announced that our poor form recently has nothing to do with rotation. This from someone who started it all off by pillorying Rafa for not starting Gerrard and Torres against Portsmouth

 

So Lawrenson all of a sudden knows who our match winners are? Two weeks ago would he have been calling on Rafa to start Benayoun and Voronin in every game? It would be kind on Lawrenson to call him short-sighted. Pompus knee-jerking wannabe manager, more like it. Gerrard? Babel? They have won us a whole bunch of matches recently, haven't they? Ah, but Babel showed a good turn of pace when he came on on Sunday ... he has got to start ahead of Kuyt (who is not a "matchwinner") in every game.

 

I don't think anyone is saying Rafa shouldn't play his best team in every game after taking a great number of factors into consideration. But I would argue he has been doing exactly that.

 

So no, you're not delusional. But you do consistently misspell "consistently".

[anfield]

such a load of bulls***. theres a reason why c***s like that retire into media rather than being paid a hell of a lot more to manage - theyre not good enough.

 

that aside lets look at a few of scums last few games - the value in brackets is the number of changes made from the previous weeks starting line up:

 

vs Wigan (3):

Kuszczak,

Pique

, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, O'Shea, Scholes,

Giggs

, Rooney, Tevez

 

vs Roma (4):

Kuszczak

,

O'Shea

, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes,

Nani

,

Saha

, Rooney

 

vs Birmingham (0):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Rooney, Tevez

 

vs Chelsea (1):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Tevez,

Rooney

 

vs Everton (4):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic,

Silvestre

,

Ronaldo

,

Carrick

, Scholes, Evra,

Giggs

, Tevez, Nani

 

vs Sunderland (...):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Eagles, Hargreaves, Scholes, Nani, Anderson, Tevez

You can keep going back and you'll see the same thing. So what can we take away from this? Is rafa the only manager to chop and change or is the rotation hype some other bulls*** invented by the media (i.e.: see also Sven, Houlier, Wenger for a good while, Ranieri, etc) that some of you mugs buy into?

 

Rotating players is a natural thing to do. Unfortunately when your central core of players doesnt turn up results arent going to go your way. These are professionals and get paid a hell of a lot of money to be motivated and play to the top of their games. The teams rafa has been putting out in the past few weeks have been f***ing strong. We even used every striker in our arsenal against Brum and still our players couldnt find it in themselves to take three points away.

 

I couldn't care less if they are unhappy with Pako's departure - man up for f***s sake, and that goes for you whinging c***s as well

 

umm, the number of changes is irrelevant. Look at who remains in the squad for the most part (when available).....the key players Ronaldo, Scholes, Rooney etc etc

[Guest 70400]

such a load of bulls***. theres a reason why c***s like that retire into media rather than being paid a hell of a lot more to manage - theyre not good enough.

 

that aside lets look at a few of scums last few games - the value in brackets is the number of changes made from the previous weeks starting line up:

 

vs Wigan (3):

Kuszczak,

Pique

, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, O'Shea, Scholes,

Giggs

, Rooney, Tevez

 

vs Roma (4):

Kuszczak

,

O'Shea

, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes,

Nani

,

Saha

, Rooney

 

vs Birmingham (0):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Rooney, Tevez

 

vs Chelsea (1):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Tevez,

Rooney

 

vs Everton (4):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic,

Silvestre

,

Ronaldo

,

Carrick

, Scholes, Evra,

Giggs

, Tevez, Nani

 

vs Sunderland (...):

Van der Sar, Brown, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Eagles, Hargreaves, Scholes, Nani, Anderson, Tevez

You can keep going back and you'll see the same thing. So what can we take away from this? Is rafa the only manager to chop and change or is the rotation hype some other bulls*** invented by the media (i.e.: see also Sven, Houlier, Wenger for a good while, Ranieri, etc) that some of you mugs buy into?

 

Rotating players is a natural thing to do. Unfortunately when your central core of players doesnt turn up results arent going to go your way. These are professionals and get paid a hell of a lot of money to be motivated and play to the top of their games. The teams rafa has been putting out in the past few weeks have been f***ing strong. We even used every striker in our arsenal against Brum and still our players couldnt find it in themselves to take three points away.

 

I couldn't care less if they are unhappy with Pako's departure - man up for f***s sake, and that goes for you whinging c***s as well

 

If anything, this demonstrates the opposite of what you're trying to prove.

VDS plays every game until he's injured.

Back four plays every game until Brown and Vidic are injured.

Carrick comes in for Hargreaves - who's injured - and then makes way for O'Shea when injured - who himself makes way for Anderson when he gets injured.

Ronaldo plays every game after coming back from suspension.

Rooney plays every game after coming back from a hairline injury.

Saha is eased back after a 10-month injury, andTevez is eased back after missing pre-season and being not fit.

Giggs / Nani are being rotated.

The rest of the 'rotation' is simply a function of the injury situation.

[John am Rhein]

Lawrenson wasn't questioning whether Rafa has what it takes to succeed in the Premiership. He was telling him specifically what he has to do. Namely, play Torres, Gerrard, Benayoun, Babel, and Voronin in every game for a month. Apparently Lawro in his wisdom has decided these are our "matchwinners".

 

It's easy for Lawrenson or anyone else to state 'obvious' crap like that because he won't be held to account for the failure of that idea. And the failure will probably be that we'll end up with an injury crisis - like we used to have so often in the 90s. Of course when that happens it's put down to bad luck rather than a failure to manage the squad correctly. Lawrenson proved at Newcastle, he doesn't have what it takes whereas Benitez and Houllier proved that they do.

[The walters step over]

It's easy for Lawrenson or anyone else to state 'obvious' crap like that because he won't be held to account for the failure of that idea. And the failure will probably be that we'll end up with an injury crisis - like we used to have so often in the 90s. Of course when that happens it's put down to bad luck rather than a failure to manage the squad correctly. Lawrenson proved at Newcastle, he doesn't have what it takes whereas Benitez and Houllier proved that they do.

 

Have I missed something here - why do we all hate Lawrenson again? You're argument seems to be "He's a c***, therefore he's always wrong".

 

As for saying that we can't play the same team for 3 or 4 weeks on the spin because the players will get injured - come on, you don't really believe that do you? We'll never get anywhere with that sort of caution.

 

Personally, I thought he made sense but obviously I'm heavily influenced by "the media" (who all hate us you know) so what do I know?

[psl]

Sometimes I wonder if there's a reason why so many journalists, commentators, pundits and observers say the same thing. Maybe, just maybe, I ponder, could it be that there's a shred of truth in what they say? Then I remember its just that they're all members of the London based media who hate the North (except Manchester for some reason) and who all follow their set agendas which they get together every few weeks to plan. This includes the ex Liverpool players in the media who all hate us now (except Thommo obviously).