Rafa is only a good cup manager apparently

[Huyton_Red]

And there was me thinking he won la liga with Valencia

 

I have been p'ssing myself laughing the last couple of days at manc/chelsea forums, papers, phone ins etc etc etc

 

Liverpool are only a cup team.

 

Ok, now we can spend £20 million + on players as well lets see who really is the best manager eh.

 

When we can buy our own rooneys, ferdinands, svechenko's and drogba's lets see what the manager who has got to more european cup finals in three years while shopping at aldi that ferguson has in 16 years despite being able to to regulary spend £18, £25, £30 million on players

 

Its a level playing field now you f'ckers, the best manager in the world has now entered waitrose with a f'ckin big platinum credit card signed by tom and george.

 

Tw'ats - the f'ckin lot of them.

[ManxRed]

I think in all honesty it would be better to describe Rafa as a good EUROPEAN manager, who's still getting to grips with the style of Premier League footie.

 

He knows the European game inside out. Once he's cracked the English style of footie (and he appears to be getting there) we're laughing.

 

B*ll*cks to the know-nothing armchair Norfolk farmers who support United, and the swallow-tattooed-on-the-neck parolees who support Chelsea. What the hell do they know?

[Cunny]

he's only a good cup manager in England, I think that's a fair point.

Once we are challenging consistently for the league then that label can go and it will - of that I'm certain.

[kacangpool]

even so, it's still the biggest cup in the land.

 

isn't the world cup also a cup tourney?

[Redkop]

I have been p'ssing myself laughing the last couple of days at manc/chelsea forums, papers, phone ins etc etc etc

 

Liverpool are only a cup team.

 

 

 

Only needs one halfwit to say this and then the sheep follow in their 1000s as if they thought it up

[sutty]

The mancs counter argument is that net spend over the last 5 years is about equal

 

I suppose that figure is helped significantly by the sales of the players they got for free though. Beckham etc.

 

I think it's probably fair to question Rafa on this, just as it is fair to caveat that he can't be judged on his league record because he hasn't been on a level playing field resources wise plus he had a rebuilding job to do. I think that that caveat will start to disappear soon though. He has his squad complete (for the most part). He needs to get his 1st XI competing for the league.

[Huyton_Red]

he's only a good cup manager in England, I think that's a fair point.

Once we are challenging consistently for the league then that label can go and it will - of that I'm certain.

 

As I said, when he can spend between £18-30 million on four or five players like the other two f'ckers have done then you can look at him challenging consistently in the league

 

 

 

The mancs counter argument is that net spend over the last 5 years is about equal

 

I suppose that figure is helped significantly by the sales of the players they got for free though. Beckham etc.

 

I think it's probably fair to question Rafa on this, just as it is fair to caveat that he can't be judged on his league record because he hasn't been on a level playing field resources wise plus he had a rebuilding job to do. I think that that caveat will start to disappear soon though. He has his squad complete (for the most part). He needs to get his 1st XI competing for the league.

 

As you say, they had the nucleas of a squad in place, fergies own squad and just had to add to it, rafa had to almost completely rebuild houlliers squad so the first few years involved getting as many players as we could in for our annual £20 million budget

 

They spent £56 million one summer a few years back, they spent £19 million this summer or micheal f'ckin carrick, rooney cost £25 million

 

We are better than cheslea and Utd in central midfield and at the back/goal. What we need is the diamonds that finish a team off to challenge for the league, the diamonds that cost £20 million +, proven world class players. Then lets see who is the best manager and lets see who is a cup team

 

The most benitez has spent on one player is £10.9 million on alonso ffs, it does not even begin to compare with what chelsea and Utd can spend on players and it is has not been even remotely an even playing field

 

Lets f'ckin see what happens now rafa can spend big eh

[intense enigma]

Imo, some managers start with instant success in the league and disappear while some build their way to the top via the cups before dominating the league....Old whisky breath won cups first didn't he before winning titles with United. So we are potentially looking at a serious domination of the premiership once we start winning the league.

[Rich Gobey]

coming 3rd out of 20 twice in two years behind only massive spending chelsea and man utd is evidence for me that he is as much a league manager as a cup manager.

 

anyone ruling out the spending advantage of the two clubs above us as a factor is deluded.

[Huyton_Red]

Ronaldo, Saha, Rooney, Carrick, Veron. Nistelroy, Ferdinand and Stam

 

Thats 8 players off the top of my head fergie has signed that cost more than Benitez's record signing, alonso. They are going to spend another £20 million on hargreaves at the end of the season as well

 

They spent nearly as much on Veron and Ferdinand that Benitez has spent since he has been at Liverpool ffs so dont even attempt to talk about a level playing field because it is not, in both Utd and Chelsea's case

Edited May 4, 2007 by Huyton_Sissoko

[Leo No.8]

Right, I'm just about f*cking sick of this net spend argument.

 

Do you know what it takes to turn a top four team into a title winning one? It takes the ability to spend what our general overall summer budget is on the one player you are missing. Why do people think we've been 'just one or two short' for God knows how long?

 

Every single summer he's been here Rafa has had to move on a load of crap and relace them with solid squad players. Cheyrou out, Garcia in. Traore out, Arbeloa in. Diao out, Sissoko in etc etc and our squad is now very deep in most areas. It takes money to do that, because the outgoing players won't fetch much in the way of a feee because buying clubs know we want rid.

 

You look at the United and Chelsea sides, and virtually every first team player they didn't bring through their youth system cost round and about our club record transfer. When they've tried to supplement their squads with Boulharouzes, Klebersons and Parks - well quite simply you get what you pay for and Rafa has had to deal in that world his whole time here. The players he's brought in for under £10m have been miles better than those Mourinho and Fergie have bought.

 

Quite simply we couldn't afford to spend big money (£20m+) on one top class, proven attacking player because it was too much of a risk. If he got injured we couldn't afford to go out and replace them and it'd be back to square one.

 

As Huyton posted - this summer, 'it's a whole different ball game' as our American friends would say...

[meepins]

He knows the European game inside out. Once he's cracked the English style of footie (and he appears to be getting there) we're laughing.

 

It's not some big fuxing mystery 'the English style'. The only problem is we only had Gerrard with the combination of speed and skill who could consistently break a team down who were concentrating on a stifling operation.

[Magic8Ball]

Right, I'm just about f*cking sick of this net spend argument.

 

Do you know what it takes to turn a top four team into a title winning one? It takes the ability to spend what our general overall summer budget is on the one player you are missing. Why do people think we've been 'just one or two short' for God knows how long?

 

Every single summer he's been here Rafa has had to move on a load of crap and relace them with solid squad players. Cheyrou out, Garcia in. Traore out, Arbeloa in. Diao out, Sissoko in etc etc and our squad is now very deep in most areas. It takes money to do that, because the outgoing players won't fetch much in the way of a feee because buying clubs know we want rid.

 

You look at the United and Chelsea sides, and virtually every first team player they didn't bring through their youth system cost round and about our club record transfer. When they've tried to supplement their squads with Boulharouzes, Klebersons and Parks - well quite simply you get what you pay for and Rafa has had to deal in that world his whole time here. The players he's brought in for under £10m have been miles better than those Mourinho and Fergie have bought.

 

Quite simply we couldn't afford to spend big money (£20m+) on one top class, proven attacking player because it was too much of a risk. If he got injured we couldn't afford to go out and replace them and it'd be back to square one.

 

As Huyton posted - this summer, 'it's a whole different ball game' as our American friends would say...

absolutely agreed,the only debate is whether to spend the money on players who can run with the ball or on a striker

 

I vote for players who run with the ball

[magneto]

Incidentally, what our cup away form like?

[fyds]

Imo, some managers start with instant success in the league and disappear while some build their way to the top via the cups before dominating the league....Old whisky breath won cups first didn't he before winning titles with United. So we are potentially looking at a serious domination of the premiership once we start winning the league.

For the first six or seven years Slur won feck all. He's not won that much lately either, despite his spending advantage.

[Cam]

It's just an odd insult to hand out in the run-up to a CUP game. Sure, if we were battling it out for the legue it'd make sense. But to effectively say "it's a cup game, Liverpool are more likely to win" is hardly an inspiration to his players.

[Mr Makaveli]

It really is hilarious that there are actually people out there who bother to even try and question Rafa's pedegree.

 

that is all I'm saying on this.

[pjwy]

And there was me thinking he won la liga with Valencia

 

I have been p'ssing myself laughing the last couple of days at manc/chelsea forums, papers, phone ins etc etc etc

 

Liverpool are only a cup team.

 

Ok, now we can spend £20 million + on players as well lets see who really is the best manager eh.

 

When we can buy our own rooneys, ferdinands, svechenko's and drogba's lets see what the manager who has got to more european cup finals in three years while shopping at aldi that ferguson has in 16 years despite being able to to regulary spend £18, £25, £30 million on players

 

Its a level playing field now you f'ckers, the best manager in the world has now entered waitrose with a f'ckin big platinum credit card signed by tom and george.

 

Tw'ats - the f'ckin lot of them.

 

In fairness,no team in the EPL is capable of winning both the league and the CL at present.Chelsea and Man U have both shown that it takes too much of a toll on their squads.We have obviously gone for the CL this season at the expense of a serious title challenge.

 

I dont think we will EVER look like serious title contenders until we find ourselves either not qualifying for the CL or getting knocked out of it early.

 

The number of points we have absolutely thrown away in the league this season would have almost got us top spot in the EPL but as I say,we can only manage one competiton or t'other!

[Paul]

Umm I don't know about that.

 

Chelsea and Man U fell short but they did have a decent crack at both the CL and Prem this season.

I also don't think we solely went for the Cl at the expense of the league, it just turned out that way simply because results weren't good enough in the league.

 

The suggestion that this was because we were in both competitions is highly debatable, for me it's because we lacked quality in the final third.

Hopefully this will be addressed in the summer.

Edited May 5, 2007 by Paul

[pjwy]

Paul,we had the CL qualifiers on our mind even in the first league game at Bramall Lane where we were lucky to scrape a draw!

 

I still think that both Man U and Chelsea ran out of steam in the CL even with the qualityof their squads.

 

At the very least though,we would need four or five top class inputs this summer to even have a chance on both fronts.

[Guest Finnan3]

Main problem with Rafa is that in Spain the top teams lose more games than Premiership yet are still up there challenging. I think its because the Spanish league there are more teams a much of a muchness, in the Prem there are 4 top teams, 3 or 4 decent sides and the rest just dross.

 

In the last few years Arsenal and Chelsea have only lost between none and a few games - thus winning the Premiership.

 

When Rafa gets to grips with that i.e. he will rest players early in the season to keep them fresh for later, but next season hopefully the squad players will be better than the last few years and we will actually pick up results.

[Ombudsam]

And there was me thinking he won la liga with Valencia

 

I have been p'ssing myself laughing the last couple of days at manc/chelsea forums, papers, phone ins etc etc etc

 

Liverpool are only a cup team.

 

Ok, now we can spend £20 million + on players as well lets see who really is the best manager eh.

 

When we can buy our own rooneys, ferdinands, svechenko's and drogba's lets see what the manager who has got to more european cup finals in three years while shopping at aldi that ferguson has in 16 years despite being able to to regulary spend £18, £25, £30 million on players

 

Its a level playing field now you f'ckers, the best manager in the world has now entered waitrose with a f'ckin big platinum credit card signed by tom and george.

 

Tw'ats - the f'ckin lot of them.

 

You'd go shopping In Waitrose with a platinum credit card?

[Maldini]

Up until the last two league games we'd won more points in the league this year than Man United.

[Guz]

Up until the last two league games we'd won more points in the league this year than Man United.

 

Which was the same last season after a very poor opening 6 weeks or so. It's great being able to pick up points for 80% of the season but if you start poorly it's almost useless. Just wish we could get the ball rolling earlier next season and start the new season with some momentum, CL qualifiers or not.

 

That said, 2 european cups in 3 years is legendary. A really special achievment if we can pull it off.

[dorgie]

As we all know, our home record in the league the last two seasons has been well up there with ManU & Chelsea's. I firmly believe that if and when we add a bit of quality to our squad in the summer it will lead to a huge improvement in the points picked up away from home. We've dominated so many away games, only to come away with 0 or 1 point.....I think once we get 1 or 2 players to turn that dominance into goals, we'll be right back up there.