Conrad

Excellent post.

I am well inclined to believe we have £12 to spend in January.

the manager has to take his fair share of the blame as well as the ridiculous circumstances he is working under. Lucas, Babel, Voronin, Ngog - these are his signings, at a combined cost of £20 million, not to mention the £7m left back Dossena who can't get in the team even on Saturday. Rafa also has to be held accountable for the Keane failure. NOT for selling him and being unable to access the money, but for spending 19 million on him in the first place. If he had got that one right, that person would still be at the club and Torres's loss would not leave us so threadbare up front. It's a shame that its so hard to have a constructive discussion on this without idiotic posts at both extremes of the debate.

not fit to tie his boot laces

No one is suggesting that are they? I think Mascherano is a total mercenary. Like him as a player, but his attitude stinks. He wants to go to Barca. He's only been here 5 minutes. When he's given us 4 or 5 years good service, like Xabi, then ok. I'm sure he'll be professional and get his head down and give us a decent season but I'll be amazed if he isn't gone next summer.

Great to see Argentina qualify

I guess Benitez was ok with Houllier being in the dressing room at Istanbul?

DH - I agree with a lot of what you post, but not on GH 1. The weaker teams are as weak now as they were in the 90s. the difference is there now a big 4 rather than big 2, and the likes of city, spurs are far stronger than they used to be. 2. Don't agree at all. Houllier inherited a team including Owen at his peak, Carragher established in the first team, Gerrard about to come through. Plus mcmanaman, fowler, berger and redknapp. 3. More to spend vs considerably more spent by rivals.

don't think he was far off with the Alonso's agent requesting a transfer story at the end of the season, given Rafa came out when Alonso was sold and said he'd known since May, iirc, that Alonso was leaving

Just to finish second - that's a horrible stat. It really is harder than ever to win the league.

this is the longest two weeks between matches ever...always is when you lose the last one before the break

Really? Is there anyone on here that actually thinks Houllier did a better job than Rafa, or was a better manager? Rafa has taken Liverpool to a level that Houllier did not get to. If anything having the debate is a positive thing for the current manager

Yep, I'm not GH's biggest fan, but Litmanen wasn't at his peak when he came here - and didn't do enough to effectively have the team built round him, which is what he needed And Hamann was subbed for Smicer as I recall - a reasonable tactical move as BL were on top of us at the time and we were being forced back. The idea was Smicer would go on forward runs and push them back - ok it didn't work, but we probably wouldn't have won if Hamann had stayed on. We weren't playing well.

What a ridiculous question. He was sacked a year later than he should have been. We are still to some extent playing catch up for the mistakes of the Houllier era.

is right

Be nice not to mention likely to cause a lot of media interest if moores went public with his admittance that he f****d up royally in selling to these two con men

Lucas was poor on Sunday, particularly second half. In the 2 minutes leading up to the first goal he didnt get the ball once. On 2 or 3 occasions the back four either ignored him or the position he went to didn't invite a pass. This led indirectly to Mascherano receiving the ball in a difficult position and losing it. To be clear I am not blaming Lucas for the goal - I am pointing out that a combination of carragher/masch in particular being reluctant to pass to him/him failing to find adequate space to receve off the back 4 led to a poor sequence of possession which led to the goal. After the goal, he twice received the ball in a tight spot in centre mid and both times lost it immediately. on one occasion he received it out left and played a good incisive forward pass to feet, the only thing, bar one successful challenge, which he accomplished during the second half before he was subbed. In short the game passed him by. And he isn't fulfilling the alonso role of taking the ball off the back 4, and dictating play/prompting the attack. The centre backs and his centre mid partner do not trust him to keep possession in tight spaces. You may argue that is not his game. But I am not sure what his best game is, and if it is basically a dupliaction of Mascherano but not as good, they should not both be in centre mid together, particularly against the best teams.

the only boring prick on here is you Carralegend.

Rush v Villa for me, for the reasons mentioned above. It was Van Basten-esque in its awesomeness.

Cheers. We always used to stuff Man City back then

Did the King ever score a hat-trick for us? I'm sure he did, but can't remember one off the top of my head

Interesting to look back to Jan/Feb (I think) when the Agger contract talks looked like breaking down. Given what happened to the Keane money had we lost Agger in the summer to say Juventus and not been able to replace him we really would be up s*** creek Thank God we got his contract sorted, let's hope he can put his injury problems behind him I remember several posters on here expressing a 'if he wants to go let him go' attitude at the time, based in part on rating Skertl as the better defender, not something I could ever get my head round. Agger has always looked a class above Skertl, even back then when Skertl was playing well

We haven't replaced Hyypia. And I think Hyypia's presence at the club was a massively reassuring one, even when he wasn't playing all the time. It's easy to forget just what a difference he made when he arrived in 99. He's a big big loss even though his best years are behind him, but as such a great reader of the game, like Maldini, there was no reason he couldn't have gone on for a year or 2 more at the top level.

I really don't get this singled out thing. There were several poor performances last night. No one is saying otherwise. The criticism of Lucas is stronger for 2 reasons - 1 he (along with Aurelio) was the prime reason we were so dismal first half. Aurelio at least has the excuse of being a left back playing out of position. 2. the concern about Lucas is based on his career as a whole. Other players - Kuyt, Gerrard, Torres - were poor too but people are not going to slate them for the odd bad performance when week in week out they deliver the goods. I hoped as the senior player in central mid last night he would rise to the challenge, and step up and show what he is capable of. He did the opposite. What disappoints me most is he has had a good run of games - the manager has placed trust in him, picking him ahead of Mascherano on occasion, buying Alonso's replacement knowing full well it would be November before he could get a game. It's not an attitude problem, he's obviously a good lad, works hard, is gradually adjusting to the pace of the premier league. The problem is he does not have enough in his locker.

I don't think Lucas is going to make it. I don't think he's good enough. He's been ok at times this season, but no more than that. This isn't a knee jerk reaction based on tonight - several players were poor tonight, but centre mid was non-existent, and Lucas's limitations were badly exposed.