alias75

Yet despite all that they only managed a 1-1 draw with a late equaliser, despite us losing some key players during the game which obviously disrupts things. My point is there is more than 1 way to play and each manager has strengths and weaknesses, yes Wenger's teams usually play great football, but Rafa has proved his methods work too even though they may not look as pretty. Of course as a fan i want the team to play a prettier style of football but if you look at Rafa's signings they suggest he wants that too, most of the weak links technically in the team are players that where here before Rafa arrived. Arsenal are a very good side that play some lovely football but i think we played pretty well in our own way and with a bit more luck could easily have won. In the end its all about winning and losing.

Well how do you measure performance? Your saying Arsenal were miles better cos they had more possession and played prettier football but what does that mean if your not creating chances and scoring goals? We created as much if not more than them, yes they played a prettier "style" of football thats better to watch but football is all about scoring goals and creating chances and in that regard we where pretty equal we just went about it in different ways, and yes Arsenals way is prettier, but that doesn't guarantee success.

I think any good passing team has to start from the back at the moment we have Carra - poor passer, Riise - poor passer, Hyppia - poor passer and Finnan whos ok. Compared to that Valencia side they had very good defenders but they were also very good footballers if your defenders cant pass it your midfielders arent going to see much of the ball and if your defenders keep giving it away or kicking 50/50 passers you can't build any sort of play. For me it begins and ends with our defenders, we need Agger back and at least 1 new full back thats very comfortable on the ball.

Its just a different way of playing one may be prettier on the eye but i remember watching Valencia under Rafa and they were pretty good to watch too, we've played maybe half a dozen games where we've resembled that Valencia team under Rafa. But those Valencia teams were all about organisation and hard work but the main difference with them and us is they had 9 or 10 very good technical players too. At the moment we have at least 3 players in the backline that cant pass the ball or look very comfortable in posession. But look at some of the players Rafa has signed, Torres, Alonso, Benayoun, Babel, Aurellio, Agger, Arbeloa, Crouch, Lucas, these are very good technical players all comfortable on the ball and good passers, so he clearly doesnt want to play this long ball style but at the moment he's limited especially with the defenders he can choose, and for any team good passing has to start from the backline at the moment the players we have there arent up to it.

I dont think we where taught a lesson today and i think overall the performance was better compared to the last month or so. Yes Arsenal played some nice stuff but we created as much if not more than them, despite having some injuries during the game to key players which obviously disrupts things. We're never going to play the Wenger way under Rafa, its just a difference in philosophy, we have 95% of the players i think to be a very strong team capable of playing much better football, i think we're still 2 players short. You can blame Rafa for this maybe since he signs the players but i also think 1 or 2 are on the way down now and need to be replaced. As for the hoof comments i agree we need to play more football but the main culprits are players that were here before Rafa arrived and if you look at the vast majority of the players hes signed they are all very good technical players but at the moment though we have 3 poor passers in the backline and 1 in Finnan whose not great and that has to have a huge impact on the type of football we play. If your defenders arent comfortable passing it its very difficult to play good football, i think this is one area we have to address, getting Agger and Arbeloa back obviously improves that situation. But overall i think we played much better today, Macherano was excellent and i thought having Alonso back with him freed Gerrard and he played his best game for a while too.

Dont think its a coincidence he plays better with Alonso back in the team with Mascherano, forget about sitting in a midfield 2 where he has too much tactical responsibility, let him play further forward and worry about scoring and creating and not worrying about dictating the tempo of the game, we know thats not his strength, But he was back to form today and against Everton so lets hope that continues.

Thats a pretty strange comment since those two are supposed to be forwards and Benayoun is an attacking midfielder, maybe that says more about what Rafa is asking from his players? i dont want forwards that are hard working midfielders. I think its all about getting the balance between attack and defence right, on paper it looks like we have the players, play the back 5 with Alonso and Mascherano (when fit) and then any 4 from Gerrard, Babel, Benayoun, Torres, Kuyt, Veronin, Crouch, Pennant etc.. give them licence to attack knowing the cover is there.

Think hes more disciplined than Stevie, certainly looked that way in the derby anyway, hes similar in that he looks to give it simple which is what we need. Should start against Cardiff and hopefully he has a good game and gets some confidence.

Think Benayoun is very hard working in fact an ideal Rafa player, he has good technical ability, a good tactical sense and he works very hard. Not sure why he hasnt figured more, maybe with pennant out he'll get more games.

Certainly think Benayoun is a better option than either Veronin or Kuyt in todays team, its not as if hes not a hard worker anyway but he has been one of the better technical players for us. As for Babel i think hes still being used sparingly and Crouch obviously doesnt have a future here and to be fair to Rafa he hasnt done a lot when he has played.

Despite being out for a while Alonso slotted back in and showed what we've been missing for some time, a midfielder that can dictate the tempo and play with his head. Sadly it looks like hes injured again, i think this is the ideal time to give Lucas a chance, hes the nearest thing we have to an Alonso type, he'll keep it nice and tidy and looks very intelligent from what little we've seen so far. Also think without Torres we have to give Babel a chance up front, the other 3 offer no threat with pace at all.

Ok hes much less of a worry that Riise but i just think our whole defence looks slow and are making silly mistakes, i hope once Agger's back we can defend a bit higher up the pitch and also with Arbeloa in there thats 2 pretty quick defenders.

Finnan and Riise are both a worry, obviously when Agger comes back he'll replace Sami but who does Arbeloa replace Finnan or Riise (has to be Riise doesnt it?) Also think Lucas has to come in for Alonso we need a passer in there and Lucas is the closet we have to him when hes injured.

Yeah im sure had Alonso and Torres been on the bench today everyone would have been happy. Alonso's looks like a freak injury that would have happened wither way, not sure about Torres but if he was very close last week you have to think he was ok.

Lucas has to play instead of Alonso and Babel instead of Torres, we need to go like for like, we saw what we were missing from Alonso today Lucas is the nearest we have to a direct replacement, and if Torres isnt fit Babel has to be one of the forwards without either of them theres just not enough pace going forward.

Think Lucas has to play instead of Alonso, time to go like for like, we saw what we've been missing with Alonso today. Rafa is damned if he does and damned if he doesnt, if he hadnt played Alonso and Torres today he'd have been attacked and now they've picked up injuries people will say they shouldnt have played. He can't win.

I think what you have here is quite a fluid team, with both Veronin and Kuyt you have 2 very had workers that im sure will try and occupy the Arsenal full backs, and then you have Stevie in a freer role. Looks like Arsenal are going with 1 up front and lots of those tricky midfielders like Rosicky and Hleb, we need to be very watchful of their midfield runners.

Which teams have drive from the middle? Fabregas is more of an Alonso type, so are the 2 that play for Utd, Lampard at Chelsea maybe but not really. Most teams now have their drive from wide players, central midfield has become so packed with teams playing 4-5-1 or a diamond in the middle. Gerrard can still drive the team from the right, just like Ronaldo does at Utd or Zidane did from the left or Ronaldinho does from the left. But from the right he may have a bit more space to do it.

Not really the point i was responding to said because Gerrard is such a top player any talk of selling him or simply speculating if we'd be stronger without him is absurd. The same could be said of Henry 2 seasons ago he was probably the best player in the world, yet Arsenal seem to have improved without him. Forgetting which player is more of an influence the main point is a group of very good individuals doesnt necessarily make the best team and it is possible that the best team in a squad isnt made up of the best individuals (as England have found out). No doubt Gerrard is one of our best individuals but it is possible we could be a better team without him, or at least with him playing away from the middle.

So would Henry in fact Arsenal were far more reliant on Henry than we are on Gerrard and his leaving seems to have improved them, its certainly improved a number of their individuals anyway. If football was all about which team had the better players Real Madrid would have won everything in the last few seasons, its how these individuals play as a team that matters i think its fair to ask would the team be better without Gerrard. Of course hes a great player and on form one of the best in the world, thats not the point, the question is are we too reliant on him? is his presence especially in the middle limiting us as a team? i think these are fair questions to ask. If he played to a high level on a consistent basis there'd be no debate but hes not and i dont think he has from the middle of midfield for some time.

Id be tempted to look at Woodgate, im sure he wont be happy in a relegation fight and the state Boro are in this season they could easily get relegated. We've already seen this season that we need backup for that position, no offence to Carragher but we need to start thinking now about his long term replacement, and in a year or two he could take the Hyppia role. As for Richards if we could get him for 15 million id do it, hes one of those players that will be around for the next 10 years at the very highest level, he may be over rated but hes still very good, and is only going to improve on his weaknesses. Like Rooney hes one of those players thats virtually no risk.

Pretty sure it was 18 months with a fee in place if we wanted to make it permanent, from what ive seen and since we have noone spectacular at left back im sure it'll be made permanent.

Spearing could be the next Carragher although his lack of height means full back may be his only position in the PL, but his attitude is fantastic. Carragher was never the most talented player but he made it to the top thanks to lots of hard work and consistency when he played, Spearing could be similar. Also think Insua isnt too far off being good enough for the first team.

Agree a lot with the last few posts, just think Stevie plays better away from the middle and the team is stronger with Stevie out wide and drifting. I also agree that Alonso with Mascerano could work really well with Alonso being able to play further up the pitch, we know hes a great passer and has a great shot but when he plays with Stevie he cant get too far forward for fear of getting caught. I disagree with the point that we dont have the team to allow Stevie a free role, in Mascherano and Alonso we have 2 of the most intelligent central midfielders in the world, they both take up great positions and both plug lots of gaps, having those 2 in there gives the team a lot of protection. Some of the greatest players in the world have been "wide" midfielders, Zidane, Ronaldinho all start out wide but they were always able to dominate a game.

The new Neil Mellor?