Jim D

I suppose attacking wise it'll be 4-3-3 but when defending we'll drop back into 4-5-1 though i'm a tad concerned that Torres may get a bit isolated since Kuyt and Voronin have a habit of dropping back too far.

VERY worrying, this is no longer a blip its chronic, we've not played well now for EIGHT games. Something is seriously not right and quite frankly I am now dreading the Arsenal game at the weekend. We play like we have been doing they will murder us. Sami unfortunately no longer has the legs to act as ample cover and we have desperately missed Agger. He is the difference for us I believe, he enables us to hold a higher line and thus compress the play. The problem we've had over the past 8 games have been two things: 1. Forwards/Strikers - Not potent enough, not enough movement, little goal threat, our forwards don't even play upfront, most of the time they are back in Midfield! 2. Really as a consequence of point 1, our defence is sitting far too deep, at different points of the game we find either our forwards being too isolated or the midfield players. When the midfield push up it leaves a huge space between them and the defence. This is where the opposition have hurt us in recent games. When the midfield drop back to help the defence then the forwards are isolated, which means Kuyt/Voronin have to drop back into midfield. To turn this around, we gotta push our team/play 20 yards further up the pitch. This just shows how crucial Agger is he enables us to hold that higher line, we can compress the play, control the ball better and players aren't isolated. Funnily enough our bad patch coincided with Agger getting injured.

Despite all the controversy at the Derby match, I felt Everton got what they deserved, absolutely nothing. The only managed ONE shot on target throughout the entire 90mins at home and that was a flick header which Pepe had to tip over. What else did Pepe have to do? Howard was far busier of the two keepers and better finishing from us would of given us a comfortable 3-1, 4-1 victory. Sissoko and Riise misses come to mind. Everton played their typical way, alehouse football, hitting it long into the corners of the pitch trying to draw a free kick or win a corner. The only time Everton looked threatening in the entire game was from those set pieces and even then they couldn't score, Sami had to put it in the net for them. They created absolutely nothing in open play and apart from Sami's mistake we were comfortable in defence. I know the bitters will go on about the Lescott/Carragher incident but the referee should of blew up for full time way before that, 3mins were added on, I think that incident happened in the 95th minute, where did the extra two minutes come from? One decision I will agree with them on is Kuyt's challenge, I don't think it was malicious and I feel he went to block the ball but when you lunge like that players safety comes into question. It was a straight red card for dangerous play rather than malicious play.

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Two cracking videos of the penalties in the away end at the Pit. Kuyt Pen 1 Kuyt Pen 2

To be honest, Everton can count themselves lucky that they even had the chance to get the ball into our box. The ref added on 3 mins of stoppage time, that incident occurred way after that. So the question is why did the ref not blow up after 3 mins?

Used our "Get out of Jail for Free Card" today for this season. Overall that was bad performance from us, our passing, our shape and our finishing was appalling. I certainly hope Rafa doesn't hide behind this result because there is still a lot of hard work to do on the training pitch. Yes, take the three points but lets not paper over the cracks of how we've played since the first international break. This result MAY just turn our season, but that is up to Rafa and the players to make that count. There has to be a big improvement in our play because if we continue to play like that, we'll be out of the Champions League and the title race before Christmas. Today's victory was out of relief rather than a team who look like they will challenge for title

If England fail to qualify, the result tonight is not the reason why they have failed. England lost "silly" points against the other lesser teams in the group, the Macedonia result comes to mind at home. If they taken those three points from that game, they would still be favourites to qualify despite having away defeats to Russia and Croatia. Talking about a new England manager, there is not one English manager in the game who is "good enough" to take the England job. McClaren was never good enough and Fat Sam well.....he is in the same boat.

We're still unbeaten in the League but its a false positive. This isn't about just today, its about the past 5 or 6 games since the International Break. We have not played well at all and it's worrying. Portsmouth 0-0 Porto 1-1 Birmingham 0-0 Wigan 1-0 Marseille 0-1 Spurs 2-2 Made no mistake this is a poor result today, Spurs were in the bottom 3, low on confidence and shipping goals like no ones business. Performances have been below average and our home form is letting us down this season.

What has this discussion got to do with Liverpool? Why bring them up at all? This thread was a discussion about your new found ability of grinding out 1-0 wins over the past 12 competitive games rather than the "famous" attacking and attractive football you Man Utd fans are so high and mighty about to everyone. When Chelsea were winning games 1-0 under Mourinho in his title winning seasons the majority of Mancs were going on about them being boring and saying "I wouldn't like to win games that way, I'd prefer to lose in an entertaining game etc etc". Now all of a sudden the boot is on the other foot and you are all accepting these boring 1-0 victories with open arms. Which proves one thing, points ALWAYS comes before entertainment and not the other way round no matter how you Mancs like to twist it. On a side note before you go on about Liverpool, yes I am worried about our current form and last nights game was a shocker. We are currently playing s****e football whereas you lot are playing boring football, which of course is what you Mancs don't want to see from your team or do you? Oh and your lot going on about the back pass rule is the reason for our success, well that just laughable. Obviously some need to look up the word "coincidence" in the dictionary. Their basis is that we stop winning things at the same time as the back pass rule came in and thus was the cause of our demise.

Apart from Pepe, he almost stole us a point, a point we scarcely deserved. Man of the Match for me.

What I meant to say was Bergues and Pako had one thing in common, they both established and had a rapport with the players in their respective squads.

Agree we've come off the rails the past four games, with some below par performances. Got to go back to basics, start winning again convincingly to return the confidence back to players. Stick with the same team to build some kind of momentum.

Ah well it means we can just concentrate on the League because that is Rafa's main priority this season?

He's never played this bad before, disgraceful really to put in such an inept performance when he is earning thousands of pounds a week. Ultimately the buck stops with Rafa he should of pulled him off a lot earlier. Agree with your second point, Rafa has been doing this a lot lately playing players out of their natural position, something GH was guilty of towards the end of his tenure.

Fish out of water, but none of the senior players played well to give him any confidence.

Indeed, you get the feeling Rafa is rotating for rotations sake. Basically he is trying to give all of his players in the squad a run out to give them games but you cannot do that in top level football. Rotation does work, Ferguson proved it last season as did Mourinho the season before, the difference between them and Rafa is they very rarely rotated their KEY players (1st teamers). Rafa has a tendency to rotate them a lot more in the top level games.

Its almost too eerie, almost like history is repeating itself. 2002/03 Top of the League, playing well, Bergues leaves (GH's number two) go into a massive slump 2006/07 Top of the League, playing well, Paco leaves (Rafa's number two) go into a massive slump?? Our next few league games, Arsenal, Everton and Blackburn are now almost pivotal to our season including the two must win Champions League away games.

Easily the worst for a long time, how on earth did he last the full 90mins? He should of been taken off after 20mins, Rafa has got to take the blame for this. He's the manager, he makes the decisions, don't really want to slag off Momo because ultimately Rafa has to take responsibility when he was playing so poorly.

Porto have just scored 1-0, that's a bad result for us. My God we've got a mountain to climb, two away games now, must win for both. Worst we've played since Houllier? absolute shocking performance from start to finish.

Garbage, hate saying that but it is, sounds over critical but it is garbage, worst than Porto.

Its been 12 games since you "clicked into gear" when is it going to happen again, you lot were saying this 3 or 4 games ago and it still hasn't happened. Your return is a pitiful 11 goals and have a worst goal scoring record than everyone else in the League apart from Derby. You can clearly see there has been a difference in your play tactically since last season when you were scoring goals for fun. I put this down to Fergie because I feel he wants one more Champions League title so he is gearing you towards getting a "result" away from home in the Champions League since you cannot do this with your attacking style. Obviously his desire to win another League title is a close second. Can we say Boring Boring Man Utd? If you do start banging in the goals again consistently then I will hold up my hand but I think the 0-0, 1-0, 1-1 results you have been getting "consistently" is here to stay for now.

To be honest this was more about their new found ability of grinding out/rub of the green/call them what you will 1-0 wins and boring everyone else in the country rather than them "sinking". It's very unusual not hearing the Mancs complaining about the football they are playing because they always go on about their team playing football the "right way" and being "attractive". Didn't they sack a manager some years ago because he was winning games in the manner they are doing right now?